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Original poster

My way Vs Naughty Step

50 replies

Lasvegas · 05/12/2005 16:10

DD aged 3 hit/pinched me in aggressive way because she didn't want to go to bed. In her defence it was a one off and she was frustrated because she doesn't see enough of me Mon -Fri.

DP and my mum advocated naughty step instead of my method below. BUT neither of them work full time, have awful commutes and look after a child alone. What use is naughty step when I am already late for work or if DD is late for bed?? But now am concerned that my way of making DD behave better is not the best way.

When she is upset she says go away Mummy - so I do - I go into a different room for 2 minutes, then go back and see if she has calmed down. In addition the other day I told her is she carried on being naughty ie hitting me I would go away for good and live in in a different house with her step brothers and not come back.

My mother thought this was an awful thing to say to DD who will be emotianlly scarred for life. What do you think? What do you do in similar situations?

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brusselsbeansprout · 05/12/2005 16:13

You going away and leaving her is her absolute biggest fear. Can you imagine someone holding a gun to her head and threatening to shoot her if you didn't do something they wanted? I would think that is pretty much on a par with what you said to her.

I do understand how hard this business can be sometimes but in all honesty, that sounded like something that was just intended to hurt her rather than get her to do what you wanted.

I'm sorry if this sounds a bit brutal.

followthestarlover · 05/12/2005 16:13

i have to agree with your mum... that's a horrible thing to say to a 3yr old!
you alreadyt say she doesn't see enough of you... now she thinks that one day you just aren't going to come back! poor thing

followthestarlover · 05/12/2005 16:13

oh, if i was in a hurry i wouldn't do naughty step i would do "if you do that again you won't get x"

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FlameRobin · 05/12/2005 16:13

I hate to say it, but I think I am with your mum... I think its been instilled from me since a child that you don't say things that you wouldn't want to come true - I just think of how it would effect her if something terrible happened, and the last thing you had said was that you wouldn't come back to her because she had been naughty .

You are right though, the naughty step doesn't work for everyone. How would the old pasta jar thing work for her (all children are different, so it might do nothing)? It would be easier than the step in times of needing to get somewhere.

thecattleareALOHing · 05/12/2005 16:14

I don't think it will leave her scarred for life in a one off incident but tbh I do think it was pretty extreme and I would personally apologise to my ds for saying something like that. It certainly does not strike me as a reasonable 'punishment' as it is more like descending to the level of a three year old.
You sound extremely stressed and unhappy though so I don't want to sound too critical. Is she generally hard to handle? You say this was a one-off incident.

FlameRobin · 05/12/2005 16:16

I relation to the actual incident, I think that leaving her to calm down was probably the right thing to do - when DD is tired and grumpy, the step normally just exaccerbates things.

Hulababy · 05/12/2005 16:16

Sorry, but I have a 3yo and there is no way I could say that line to her. It would scare her half to death, but i don't think it would be effective as a form of discpline for her.

At home we do our form of a naughty step. If busy, on way out or out I will ignore her for a period of time or remove soemething/refuse a treat - depending on where we are and what she is doing and why.

Hulababy · 05/12/2005 16:17

Agree the idea of calm down time is fine though, and there are certainly times when I do this with DD - very similar principle to naughty step except you remove yourself, rather than the child, from the scene.

DinosaurInAManger · 05/12/2005 16:17

Oh lasvegas please don't take this tack with her. My DH's mother used to do this to him and his siblings and I think it was pretty damaging, actually.

JingleShells · 05/12/2005 16:32

Time out for all to calm down is how we've always dealt with naughtiness.
One thing I've learnt though is that you should never give false threats to children, they catch on very soon when you say something and don't follow it through, and then it becomes hard to disipline them at all, because they know mummy never carries out the punishments she threatens.

followthestarlover · 05/12/2005 16:34

if you say things like that a lot another thing that may happen is that she will become really clingy... not wanting to go to nursery etc because she is scared you won't be there when she gets back...

seriously, scaring children is NOT an effective form of punishment

Original poster

Lasvegas · 05/12/2005 16:51

Many thanks for your swift responses. Would seem that removing myself is a good plan but that saying I will go away is not a good idea. The step thing sounds unworkable to me. If DD is in bath and saying go away mummy surely better to go away and let her calm down rather than take a wet child out of the bath and put her on a stair? I had threatened to deprive her of treats-said she wouldn't have her birthday presents unless she behaved. But it didn't work.

So what would you do is DD is hitting you, just let her carry on? Surely she has to learn to conform to acceptable behaviour. I don't believe in smacking her back. Or letting her cry herself to sleep, Naughty step not for me either. What is left?

DD chucked milk all over our clean bed so yes I was angry at her. We are unable to find suitable childcare which means I am late for work everyday and exhausted which isn't helping my relationship with DD but the childcare situation gets worse not better and beyond my control.

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FlameRobin · 05/12/2005 16:55

With smacking me, she goes to her room - unless (and this is the main time she does it ) we are in the car - she kicks off and starts hitting and spitting as I try to force her into her seat. That normally results in me losing my temper, turning the radio up VERY loud and screaming - it scares her into stopping . Not the most controlled way to handle it though!!! Since we work on a sincere apology making everything better, there is no need to punish when we get home as she is already very sorry (if not a tad deaf).

If she has been sent to her room for smacking, then she can either call down for me that she wants to say sorry, or I will go back in 2-3 mins, and ask if she is sorry - if she is still fuming, then she yells "NO!" and we start again...

Removing myself from the room doesn't often work for me... she follows and keeps on at me. They really do know what works best for winding you up!!!

Hulababy · 05/12/2005 16:56

If DD is in the bath you really shouldn't leave her at all though. better to take her out of the bath and remove her if necessary.

Original poster

Lasvegas · 05/12/2005 16:59

Should have said no water in the bath. Bath finished and she didn't want to get out. If I can avoid it I don't want to physically make her move if she is refusing and she is somewhere safe. I was next door - could hear her.

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charlietherednosedpussy · 05/12/2005 17:05

Am I reading right that if yur dds having a strop/temper or whatever Shes telling you to leave the room till she comes down? I really think its her that should be leaving TBH.
And if she didnt want get out the bath, just pluck her out. Someones got to be in charge.

followthestarlover · 05/12/2005 17:17

If she won't get out of the bath take her out! you're her mum, and she needs to know that you are in charge... at the moment she is. she tells you to go and you do!!!!
if you are runinng low on time and she does soemthing (ie the milk) then you remove a privilege. So, if she does something naughty then you remove a favourite toy, or ban something she was going to be doing that day etc etc
Same with hitting. If she htis you she gets a warning. "if you hit mummy again you will sit on the naughty step/have no sweets today"
if she then does it again you HAVE to carry out the punishment.

Mercy · 05/12/2005 17:18

Sorry, agree with your mum up to a point - dd will NOT be scarred for life though. And naughty step doesn't work in certain situations. SOunds like she is angry/frustrated with you, rather than being out and out naughty.

Can you let dd stay up a bit longer with you? You don't have to be too rigid with bedtimes; even an extra 20 mins can make a difference if you focus purely on her.

Hulababy · 05/12/2005 17:20

charlie - just thinking about it like that. DD is saying Go Away - so you do. She is then getting her own way I guess. So that is probably why Little Angels, etc remove the child and not the parent. Makes sense that way.

I would simply lift DD out of the bath if she was refusing. And plonk her on her bed till she calmed down, checking on here after a couple of minutes to give her chance to chave settled.

Epiffany · 05/12/2005 17:20

Ummm sorry but found that a really appalling thing to say to your child
I think (controversially) you would be better to smack than say that.

Mercy · 05/12/2005 17:26

Lasvegas, I really do think it's an attention seeking/angry/frustration thing. Is bathtime/bedtime one of the few times you have together with dd?

thecattleareALOHing · 05/12/2005 19:09

I don't think the important thing in this is how you punish her at all. I think that's the LEAST important thing here. I think what is happening in both your lives that is making you both so stressed is what is important. Your long hours, your commute, your childcare, your daughter's obvious unhappiness and missing you, your frustration, stress and sadness are all FAR more important. I'd say forget worrying about punishment. Step up your positive interactions as much as you possible can. Praise her, cuddle her, play with her, bombard her with praise. Make a behaviour chart with ONLY smiley faces. Make sure there are lots of opportunities for smiley faces. And what about the childcare? What's happening there? And your work? How long is your commute? what are the possible solutions that spring to mind? We could do a Mumsnet brainstorm with you!

juuule · 05/12/2005 19:14

When you say that you would go away and live in a different house do you mean it? I have always followed the principle that you shouldn't threaten a child with something that you do not mean to follow through with. If you say something on the spur of the moment and you don't mean it - apologise and explain. Before you make a threat, count to ten and ask yourself - do you mean it and what do you hope to achieve by it? She is only 3. You are the centre of her world. She needs you to hold the world together for her while she tries to make sense of it. Not threaten to abandon her. You have already said she misses you. One of her greatest fears might be that you won't come back and by saying what you say then you are reinforcing that fear, so making her worse. The hitting and pinching could just be to get more of your attention, which she wants, even if it is negative attention.
If you are late for work then just carry on with what you are doing - dress her, carry her to the car, try not to get worked up. When you are ready to go, talk to her. Tell her it upsets you. That it's not nice and you're unhappy and she is unhappy. Forget the naughty step for now. It obviously isn't right for you.
With the bath - take her out, put her in her room or somewhere else safe for her to calm down. Tell her you love her and to shout for you when she's calmed down. Don't leave her too long before checking on her and asking if she's okay yet. If she's still worked up - start again.
When she is being good, make a fuss of her. Let her see that it's much better when everybody is nice to each other.
Children really know which of our buttons to push. They seem to be continually testing us. When you feel yourself being drawn in, recognise it, try to take a deep breath and stay in control (yep, I know, easier said than done sometimes) .
Sorry if this doesn't come across very well. Obviously if you don't agree feel free to ignore.
Hope you find a way that you are both happy with.

SnowmAngeliz · 05/12/2005 19:14

Aloha is that you?

Excellent post, i agree!

LilacBump · 05/12/2005 19:16

it might not be exactly the same, but my dad threatened all the time that if i was naughty he'd kick me out of the house. it might seem like a hollow threat, but it is exactly what his parents did with his sister. they kicked her out on the street when she was 16. it put terrible fear in me and i was never really naughty in my childhood/teenager years because of this.

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