Why is it impossible to get anyone to have both my boys for a playdate?

[tigermoth]

Am I asking the impossible? Here's the situation:
dh and I have 2 sons - oldest 11 at secondary school, youngest 6 in year 2.

As luck would have it, my oldest son's 3 nearby best friends have younger brothers. The older boys are aged 11 or 12. Their younger brothers are aged between 8 and 10.

When organising plyadates, I have made a point of asking both older boy and younger brother round to play. This gives my younger son someone to play with, all the boys get on well and the younger brothers are not left out at home. It also means the parents get a break. I have been doing these dual playdates for at least a year.

The reason I choose to have a houseful of boys is not 100% altruistic. I am hoping said parents of boys will then invite my two sons for reciprocal playdates, thereby giving dh and me a very rare unpaid for childfree interlude. Rare because we have no extended family nearby to do any free childminding - all our time alone together must be paid for.

All the parents know our situation. I do not complain about it, I hope, but I make it clear how little time dh and I have to ourselves. In each case the parents have family on hand nearby, and various childminding options. (I know this because these are people I have known from school for several years).

Now, not one of them ever invites my youngest son when they ask my oldest for a playdate. There is no misunderstanding here, they clearly state they just want my oldest. They have witnessed my youngest son get upset - or their children have. I really feel for ds2, because he finds it hard to comprehend why he cannot play with these boys at their house when they happily play with him at ours.

All these parents are reasonable, responsible people. One even collects my youngest son from school each day and drops him at his playclub. A paid arrangement, but she tells me she really likes him. Yet still no invite when she invited ds1 over.

Why? Why? Why?

sorry am new here so not sure of posting protocol in middle of thread. Feel as if standing on cliff. Very self-conscious. Baka - so true. Also agree with aloha - it probably never occurred to them, and they probably view playdates as playdates, rather than as childcare. TM is there noone in your area with similar situation to you, who will understand instinctively? I've found myself getting friendly with some women whose partners work LARGE hours,like mine does, which leaves us feeling somewhat ragged. We do each other favours without having to explain each time. Failing that, I think spitting it out and asking directly is the only solution.

I think it must be the age difference for TM's boys. my dd2 is nearly always invited on dd1's playdates, and vice versa, but they are 5 and 4 and in consecutive years at school.

am sure that people with lots of local help just don't realise how desperate those without can be for a bit of (free) time off.

Tigermoth we are also hoping to move to Devon soon. will have to set up a Mumsnet Reciprocal Childcare System.

justacigar- well I think your first post was great- because you agreed with me

I haven't read all the posts, but I wanted to say TM I am suprised at the lack of reciprical invites that have come your way.

In our house we have 2 girls 4 and 6 and I am very proactive with playdates, I do see them as unpaid childcare (sometimes) but only with good friends of my own. I have found myself (plenty of times) asking if they can go to one or another house. However I make it clear that as soon as possible we will make this up, and so poor dh (who is house husband at the mo) is having to sort 2 or more playdates a week!!!

My favourite people to ask are those who have siblings the same age as both of mine - 4 works better than 3. However some times I invite just one child, a friend of either of them. However they are all expected to play nicely.

TBH I am assertive with my friends in this way as they know I work full time and sometimes have problems in school holidays, so I simply ask. BUT it is a minefield as I don't want friends to feel obliged to say yes, or to take them both. And I do pay my way in wine I can see all sides to this one, it is nice for kids to have separate friendships, but theyare all expected to play together when they come to us

The perils of middle aged motherhood is by the time our kids are old enough to be left, our parents are too aged to have them

I'm lucky in that my mum had me young (23) and is superfit, but even she won't have either of them overnight and works a LOT - including weekends.

Bit late to respond to Tuesday's posts but my grandparents used to have me for a week at a time in the school holidays, from the age of 6. I loved it- it was a real treat and it never occurred to me that the break was for my mother's benefit! I can remember being put on the train with my brother when we were about 10 and 8, and met at the other end.

Me too Tallulah. The trainline we went on was a quiet one, but the journey was probably an hour or so. I remember going with my brother when I was definitely no older than 6 or 7 (he was 8!)

Later I often used to go on my own to one grandparent or the other, and I loved having the break from my siblings.

I used to get put on a coach and met at the other end. Loved it, felt very grown up!

dh got put on a plane to visit his grannies. Flew to the Netherlands on his own aged about 8. Flew to Zimbabwe with his sisters aged 10,8 and 6. not sure whether to or

Some how flying seems better, as there are unaccompanied minors schemes to check they are escorted. And it's not like you can get off at the wrong stop, is it?

LOL Roisin. See Aloha it used to happen in the olden days. And actually my grandparents were the same sort of age that my kids grandparents are. My grandparents had their kids late due to the war (so late 20s/early 30s which was late in those days) but I was born when my Mum was 23 (Dh's Mum was only 21) and we had our two late 20s/early 30s. Therefore grandparents same age.

Hope you and your dh enjoyed your coffee together, baka.

You are right, if I keep comparing my situation to other peoples' I will just get bitter and twisted. It is a mindset I don't want to get in. And it is not the worst problem in the world.

But I can't help resenting the fact that the parents I know could help me out so easily if they actually thought about it.

Still, there are ways round it. I have just begun to 'waste' my flexileave by taking the odd half day off during the week. I just have that slow, dawning realisation that my plan for reciprocal two-son playdates just isn't working

I can drop ds1 at school at 8.30 am, be in Covent Garden by 10.00 am, spend a few hours wandering round and be back at work by 2.00 pm for the afternoon. Bliss! If I then work on till 7.00 pm, I have nearly worked a full day. And very rarely, dh and I have the odd half day off together, but he gets less holiday than me - and we do need to keep most of our holiday entitlement free for the school holidays, as dh and I always have to split childcare duties.

Thanks for your offers, skinnycow and fennel - will look you up when we eventually move.

Thinking of some of the messages here, like crunchies and justacigar(welcome to mumsnet!), I think it is a matter of luck that you happen to latch onto a group of friends who all want the same thing - a break from their children courtesy of playdates. I am sure if I knew more people around here who had no family back up, we'd all be on the same wavelength. Just my luck that my son chose all his friends from big extended families!
Bozza, it sounds like your grandparents were really sensitive to the needs of your partents - I too remember it was not at all unusual for children to go off for holidays with their grandparents, travelling alone to get to them.

Grandparent hols in Devon for the boys is not an option at the moment as the PILS have lots of building work happening, hopefully by next summer, it will be finished.