Failed our steiner toddler group

[Orangeflower7]

I was looking for a smaller more relaxed kind of toddler group for my ds (2.5). Got a bit fed up with the big busy groups lots of ride ons etc..so tried the steiner group. Just met one of the mums from it today who is 'sad it didn't work out for me' and am feeling a bit of a failure.

I'll explain a bit. It went on for ages and we all had to sit round the table and make a woolen spider which to be honest the children were to young to do- ds got frustrated and threw it away. It seemed that it was for the mums really, (craft) I found it stressful as I had to help make the activity so much whereas ds wanted to go play, and there was no choice of activity, all the mums were sat doing the craft activity so the children who were playing didn't have much input really.

The routine was like this (over 2 hrs) Craft-then (adults make snack which children couldn't eat just yet) -singing-then wash hands (line up) then-sit up and eat snack- then story.

I just found it too much direction and sitting down stuff for a 2 year old..although the (mostly little girls) other children seemed very obedient

It is a shame as it would have been a nice change...didn't find it very child centred though. Please tell me it's not just my ds is it, I do know a little about early years and the emphasis is a lot on play, (adult led and child initiated, choice and independence, how does that sit then with steiner?

So back to the big groups we go.

Notquitegrownup What you just described is called Hueristic Play and it is not a Stiener thing. It's used widely in most nurseries, Sure Start Centres and Childminders, and it's really good fun for little ones. In fact it sounds like your baby had a great time tipping all the contents out. That's the point of Heuristic play, they do what they want.

Stiener was quite obviously a loon but please don't write of all play ideas that Steiner groups use, some of them have been stolen and are simply being badly implemented....

For example; exlporing the natural environment. Well that's lovely isn't it? You can't deny that learning about nature is a Good Thing. Singing blessings about snack on the other hand, is crazy.

So apply your common sense. Craft activities are good but as the OP already knows, forcing children to sit and do a craft activity that is beyond them is pointless and setting them up for bad behaviour.

IMO the best play groups and nurseries take the good bits from different childcare approaches and go with what works for the individual child. If the group is telling you that your 2 year old is wrong for not wanting to make a wool spider then get out as fast you can!

What concerns me most is, where do all the twigs come from? I mean, we must be talking ALOT of twigs being used here to produce the Steiner little twiggy drawings and Steiner little twiggy models.

Are they twigs from specially grown Steiner trees, because I really don't like the thought of people using battery-farmed twigs. That's unethical. I hope they are little twigs that have naturally fallen off the trees.

I feel quite upset at the thought of the global twig crisis that could be looming here right under our noses.

Please spare a thought for the Steiner twigs.

ExpatMummyinOz

I'm awful at crafts. I would have probably flung the spider across the room myself and sat on the floor crying and stamping my feet!

I know people who believe in no tv and only wooden toys. It's frightening really. Reminds me of the 1950's where "rock and roll" was frowned upon. It's so archaic.

I'm stick man, I'm stick man, I'M STICK MAN, that's me.

And i long to be out of this barbaric torturous crazy arsed Steiner creche....

Mmmm doesn't quite rhyme as well as the rest of the book.

OP- I went a Steiner School Fete recently and was invited to the toddler group. Everyone at the fete seemed happy. However when the toddler group's plan of activity was described to me I changed my mind. My 3 year old son would have behaved just like your's! We go to a church playgroup once a week- hall full of plastic tat and two coupe cars to fight over. Mums sit around drinking tea and eating biscuits and make sure no babies are flattened by the cars. I'd have a nervous breakdown trying to force my son to make a spider. I have friends with 3 year olds who like to do craft. Most of them are girls.

TBH, DS struggles with the structure of the surestart messy play. DS refuses to sit and have snacks and runs about yelling during sing song time. Steiner group would probably chuck us out after five minutes. You're well rid OP.

I prefer the massive chaotic church group. So does DS. I get to sit in peace for an hour while he runs off and comandeers the knight rider ride on. Fun for us all :)

As an utter atheist - find a church group. Preferably a catholic one, because they people running it will have had 5 sprogs and they will dish out tea, biscuits and sympathy. And they aren't allowed to be mean or boot you out because Jesus apparently said "suffer the little children to come to me"

neolara I just had a scary flashback! Yikes.

My toddler group was not Steiner but apart from that my experience was frighteningly similar.

I was a new adoptive mum with my 18 month old DS. We stopped going to Toddlers after we were lead by the lady running it to the ?quiet calm down room?. DS had been doing something as innocuous as pushing a doll?s pram at high speed around the room and they had decided to separate us from the rest of the group. We were left alone in this room until a Mum with another energetic boy was sent to join us. I decided enough was enough and so did they on the way out they told me I needed ?some parenting classes and a group with more high energy activities for DS?. We had been expelled from Toddler group!

Some are just more lively and physical than others I think. Mine never really got on with music, dance and quiet type play groups.

We were much more at home with soft play, trampolining, soft play and tearing about in parks. I don't think it's down to parenting. They're just born this way.

And whilst it is important to make efforts to calm your dc down a bit - because they do have to sit down at carpet time and concentrate once they start school. (Board games is good for encouraging this).

If they don't enjoy craft and sitting still, find something they do enjoy. It's not failure, its just that they're lively individuals with different interests.

Bingo!

Sorry - wrong fred

I like our playgroup.

We chuck the babies on the floor, they bugger off to hit each other with toys and we all sit around having coffee and carbs.

Lovely.

Sometimes a nose needs wiping and one mum did suggest possibly craft but we all looked at her like she had lost her mind so she didn't come back...

We are lucky enough to have an outdoor climbing frame bit for the toddlers so they all go on that.

Dd2 and I went to the local Steiner open day once, we took part in a music session in a yurt. We were both very unimpressed with the instruction for the boys to bang the drums and be the Male Earth Entity (or whatever's male in nature), and the girls to tinkle the triangles in tune with the Feminine Moon. Bah.

Dd2 is not, and never was, one to sit and tinkle her triangle quietly in feminine bashfulness while the boys bang the drums.

We haven't been back.

Despite being a hippy dippy type and the type people imagine would be into Steiner; it is horrible.

Some wooden toys are great, but no lego or playmobil?!? Madness.

No TV? So what am I supposed to do with them while I'm busy being morning sick into the toilet?

another hippy dippy type here who home schools, and i am regularly lumped in with our local Steiner lot by people who meet me for the first time.

I stumbled upon a play area at a local festival and didn't realise it was run by the Steiner group. The woman sat having a lovely chat with me and then suddenly got up, picked up her small child and walked away. She completely blanked me after that and I'm still trying to figure out what I said that was so offensive

They were running a weekly group and so i did some ivestigating to see whether i should give it another try.......you could take your own snacks but they must be organic and vegan only. They requested no leather to be worn etc you get the idea....

I ran a mile. And then ordered a book about the man himself and read a lot more about the Steiner ethos. And i didn't like what I read.

I have strong views about letting a child be .....and those who think i am a Steiner parent usually have a very rose tinted view of what exactly steiner is

We found they were abrupt and rude too queenrollo...one woman actually backed off from me because she saw DD2's bottle of milk. Her face was

jcbcj For a given value of normal, yes. I guess I survived

I went on to get a First from Oxbridge, so in terms of academic qualifications I guess I didn't suffer in the long run. I was lonely and unhappy there, though, and (though this is perhaps not unique to Steiner schools) found the schoolwork unchallenging and the teachers often pretty mediocre. I was lucky in that I found a handful of teachers who were great, supportive mentors and gave me the impetus to be ambitious - the overall culture of the school didn't really encourage people to push themselves and excel.

There are plenty of reasons why I could have been unhappy that aren't necessarily the school's fault, so I don't want to draw definite conclusions from that. But when people ask me about my education, I do tell them I grew up in a cult. Not a cult in the sense of 'they'll come looking for you if you try to get away', but definitely a cult in the sense of having everything underpinned by a pervasive belief system that's both at odds with the 'outside world' and very circular in its reasoning.

DP went to a Christian Brothers school, and while they're very different environments we share an experience of being shocked by how differently the rest of the world appears to see things, and needing to spend a lot of time deprogramming ourselves subsequently.

The worst thing about it for me, besides the boredom and lack of aspiration (no 'go and get a good job', oh no, that's 'materialistic') was the pervading talk of 'spiritual development' by people who were consistently at each others' throats. The teachers who were really into Steiner spirituality tended to drift about as though floating half an inch above the ground, and interact with one another as though they were among the elect who were 'saved' and anyone who didn't see life in the same way was somehow at a lower level of evolution. All the while fucking each others' spouses and tearing each other to bits in school management meetings.

Again, I've seen enough other 'alternative' movements to realise that this isn't unique to Steiner. You might find the same level of hypocrisy, passive aggression and self-delusion in a hippy commune or sectarian faith school, or indeed a conference of transpersonal psychotherapists. But the point is that lots of people who get involved with Steiner think it's just a slightly arty and 'alternative' kind of private education, and don't realise that it comes with an entire belief system attached that pervades everything that happens.

That's probably a long enough ramble for now but if anyone's interested I'm happy to post a bit about the detail of the Steiner belief system.

Manatee

I am interested. We have a Steiner school nearby which seems to attract parents with an alternative 'arty' sort of ethos, I haven't ever heard anyone talk about a 'belief system'. It also attracts parents whose children have struggled in mainstream education and it makes you wonder how well equipped it is to cope with children who have significant behaviour problems.

There is a big Steiner School near us and we often go to the Christmas fair. The Steiner Santa is fab. Super skinny. He's all 'Yeah. Right. So. Christmas. Cool." And then the present was - a pencil. DD was like, 'mum that's the most rubbish Santa I ever saw.'

I am interested manatee. I've read a bit about anthrosophy (?) but don't really get it. We have a Steiner school locally and the children do seem very well behaved (but since becoming a parent I've realised that that isn't as desirable as I thought previously).

Do dish

Merrylegs at 'cool' Santa

Apparently Steiner is more mainstream in Germany, well resourced etc A friend has experience of how successful these approaches are when working with people with disabilities and was very positive.

They haven't turned up yet?

MN really isn't what it used to be

Your DS didn't fail toddler group. He evolved out of it with a bang of youthful effervescence. Good on him.