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what are the reasons for NO smacking?

695 replies

hermykne · 17/11/2005 13:27

I AM CURIOUS to know, folling the other thread, as my dd is so bold at the moment nothing gets thru to her, even putting her in a time out room for 2/3mins, shes 3. she will keep on screaming and then hit something or push something over.
can last 40mins and no matter how you go over the matter with her when shes calm, she doesnt seem to learn anything,
and i suppose smacking will not make her understand either...
but what does smacking create or instill in behavourial patterns in yours opinions?

OP posts:
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justforthisthread · 18/11/2005 19:30

I dont use smacking as a form of discipline but i cant say ive never done it. I have smacked ds (aged 8) about three times in his life. The first time i didnt mean to, i went to pick him up from his dads, (he was about 3) he came flying out of the door and punched me in the privates. I slapped him. it was a reaction to something very painful, all over in seconds. im not proud of it, i was in the wrong. i told him i was in the wrong and apologised. At the time i didnt really even know it was him, it was a reaction to being hit unexpectedly if that makes any sense.

I dont remember the second time but the last time was a few weeks ago. He threw a book into his sister's cot with great force. It hit her on the head really hard, gave her a big red mark and made her scream. Since she has been born there have been a LOT of incidents where i have come into the room to find him hurting her..not particularly on purpose (sometimes yes), sometimes out of sheer carelessness. I once came in to find him shaking her when she was a few months old. He doesnt realise the danger and ive told him so many times. When i smacked his bottom the other week it didnt hurt him at all..but the fact i had done it was enough to shock him into realising he was very wrong. (because obviously, smacking is something i dont do) I never planned it, it was spur of the moment, but the fact i had done it was enough to make him think. I mean what next, what else would he have dropped on her head?

I dont agree with it on a regular basis. I dont think it helps. I have a friend who is at present having trouble with her son. I havent said anything about it to her but ive come to the conclusion that she smacks him so much its no deterrent anymore. She smacks him for such silly things, i suppose to him, misbehaving in a really bad way doesnt matter...he will get smacked anyway so its no worse than normal. When he was two i remember her slapping him really hard around the head. She did this purely because he had come out of the house onto the patio where we were. No danger, no misbehaviour, simply because she had told him to stay in the living room and he wanted to come outside. now that is wrong.

My mum NEVER smacked me as a child. Not once. But i got punched, strangled, held up by my throat kicking and screaming, i got toys thrown at me and i got thrown all around the house by my stepdad (and this wasnt for bad behaviour, just because he was pissed). There's a very big difference IMO. Actually, id rather have been smacked in a controlled way. The mental abuse was much worse. From the age of about 8 i was called names constantly...all i had to do was be in a room he happened to be in. He would walk past and call me a bitch, a slut, a slag etc etc.

What would be the point in a ban on smacking? Who would actually listen?...no-one. They would just do it in the confines of their own home..the same as child beaters do. It would not achieve anything.

So to sum up, i think sometimes it is called for, as a very last resort. Im changing my name, not because of my view, but because ive just admitted to the abuse i suffered.

A thread i would find very interesting would be one asking how many people have hit someone else...as a child to a child or an adult to an adult. Then to ask how they were brought up. im unsure as to whether it makes a difference.

hermykne · 18/11/2005 19:33

this is so emotive, and all these instances are very different, i dont like the abuse idea at all and find that quite upsetting, but i suppose thats a reality.

incidents in next are so hard to condenm
there has to be a empathy with the parent.

but i do think there is a age barrier with a child where a slap is just that, a stop sign, because they intellectually dont understand consequence or the reason they cant do something.
it may break a "childs warpath"

but if it leads to them slapping back or a sibling then its the wrong message.

but intelligent/half coped on p arents cant coax a child all day patiently
i cant, i do get cross at least once if not twice

maybe 3 and 16mths are too close for discipling

OP posts:
harpsichordcarrierforcharidee · 18/11/2005 19:38

no QOQ "time out" is not humiliation nor intended to be. it is time for the child to think about the situation and work it out

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

soapbox · 18/11/2005 19:45

Justforthisthread - I am not sure if you are being deliberately satirical, but I do find it mindblowingly laughable that the way that some parents teach their children not to hit their siblings is to hit them!!!!

Bizarre - totally without logic!!!!

And the 'it works' argument! Maybe it does, but so do many other means of setting boundaries which do not involve whacking your children - those little vulnerable people whom we are supposed to protect!!!!

Socci · 18/11/2005 19:48

Message withdrawn

justforthisthread · 18/11/2005 19:56

Soapbox. I did say, did i not, that it was not planned. That i dont use smacking as a form of discipline. It was "spur of the moment" and certainly not something i usually do. As i said, i have smacked him about 3 times in 8 years. On that occasion however, i did not apologise to him because basically, i was at the end of my tether. I KNOW what a beaten child is and my ds certainly is not one. He has all the love and support he could ever wish for. Three smacks in 8 years does not make me a bad parent and noone is going to convince me as such. I am only being honest here. I couldn't put an opinion on this thread if it was based on lies.

ladymuck · 18/11/2005 19:59

soapbox - I don't think that anyone here is advocating whacking your child - that would be illegal and immoral.

If you can't see the difference between whacking and smacking then I'm afraid that within the population at large you are in the minority. ANd for the sake of your children I am very grateful that you are anti-smacking.

It could just be a matter of terminology. We had some Canadians living next door, and they hated the term "smacking" (as to them it did imply "whacking"). We had to inform them that their prefered term "spanking" had other connotations over here.

Anyway I'll parp myself on this one and be thankful that the libdems aren't in power yet!

zippitippitoes · 18/11/2005 20:03

The detrimental efects of smacking are mitigated by the punishment being administered in the context of a strong loving family relationship, as is the case with other forms of discipline which could be why pro smackers believe it works when they use it in that context but why use it when there are other ways to discipline which would be effective..if I was offered the chance to have a smack or lose some points progressively until a privilege was withdrawn I would not choose to be smacked.

laligo · 18/11/2005 20:04

oooh hermynke you have passed 500.

hermykne · 18/11/2005 20:09

laligo
flabbergbasted at the total!! jesu* and i havent had the time to read them all
all i wanted was a few pointers....

OP posts:
harpsichordcarrierforcharidee · 18/11/2005 20:13

well I have been trying so hard not to get emotional about this but - ladymuck I really couldn't care about fine distinctions like whacking, smacking, tapping....
do you really think that it matters to the child how hard he is smacked?
that when he cries he thinks well that's OK she didn't hit me very hard??
and do you really know how much pain he/she feels?
no, of course you don't and it is entirely beside the point

harpsichordcarrierforcharidee · 18/11/2005 20:17

i think I should probably, in the nicest possible way, parp myself at this point....
post natal and all that

twirlaround · 18/11/2005 20:20

Obviously there are worse things you can do than smack your child.

Beating them is worse. Psychological punishments can be worse. But those of us who are anti-smacking are also against anything worse!

Smacking is not right because it is less bad than other things.

ladymuck · 18/11/2005 20:21

"There is a world of difference between a light smack and violence or abuse. We should recognise that the vast majority of parents understand that difference and would never harm their children deliberately."

Margaret Hodge leading the debate against a total ban on smacking.

Thankfully our legislators have more faith in parents than you do.

harpsichordcarrierforcharidee · 18/11/2005 20:23

ladymuck
many years ago I studied and worked in the field of child abuse
I worked for several years as a lawyer specialising in family law cases, including chid protection
I am afraid I have seen too much

harpsichordcarrierforcharidee · 18/11/2005 20:24

CHILD protection

saadia · 18/11/2005 20:27

As has been said before, mners are not a representative sample of the nation.

I just feel that most people who smack in this country do cross the line and although I have reservations about the state intervening to ban smacking, in some ways I think it might help to stop child abuse at some level.

The state would be saying that children have rights too and are not the property of their parents. I can see that banning it would also create a lot of problems and resentment but I think the benefits would outweigh the costs.

FairyMum · 18/11/2005 20:31

Yes, there is a difference between a light smack and violence and abuse, but most people who campaign for a ban on smacking do so not to presecute parents who occasionally smack their child's bottom, but to get a law which makes it easier to presecute real abuse. As it stands today it is such a grey area. Please see the wider picture in this debate. banning smacking has worked prefectly fine in other countries. For some reason so many parents in the UK think they are above child experts, child welfare organisations and a ton of research which tells us smacking is at its best not efficient and at its worst child abuse. Bring on the nanny state I say!

HRHQoQ · 18/11/2005 20:33

Child pornography is banned - but it doesn't stop it happening. Drinking and driving (above a certain limit) is banned. Lots of things are banned - but it doesn't stop them happening.

spidermama · 18/11/2005 20:35

But it sends out the message that it's socially unacceptable.
The message has worked really well for drink driving.
I remember in the 70's grown ups recalling how funny it was that they were skating all over the road because they were driving pissed.

harpsichordcarrierforcharidee · 18/11/2005 20:36

yes, spidermama - and the same with things like race and sex disrimination and disability discrimination too
good jurisprudential theory

Heathcliffscathy · 18/11/2005 20:37

ladymuck sorry but the fact that the commons didn't pass a ban means that it must be ok?????? eh?????? the commons didn't pass a ban despite the vast majority of experts including the nspcc agreeing that it was desperately needed because this government is terrified of p*ssing off daily mail readers and inhabitants of middle england, the same kind of people that would like to bring back capital punishment.....pleeease!

HRHQoQ · 18/11/2005 20:37

and that article which was posted from the BBC - can't remeber who linked to it.

Said that in countries where smacking was banned - children that were smacked suffered more from the physcological effects than those who were smacked in countries where it was still socially acceptable.

saadia · 18/11/2005 20:37

But it makes it possible to prosecute and punish people who engage in these activities HRHQoQ.

Just because the law can't stop these things happening, are you saying we should just accept them.

HRHQoQ · 18/11/2005 20:39

excuse me Sophable what sort of a comment is that??

I certainly don't read the daily mail - and as for "inhabititants of middle englang" - and I'm against a total ban on smacking.

I'd rather it was "out in the open" than hidden away behind closed doors. Because that's what those parents who do abuse their children by whacking them will do - they won't give them a couple of smacks in the street - they'll wait until they get home, and they're even more worked up and beat the cr*p out of their kids IMO.