I am really struggling working full time with 3 small children

[peppapighastakenovermylife]

That's it really. I feel like I can't cope anymore and not quite sure what the solution is.

I have 3 children (DS1 4.9; DD 2.8; DS2 9 months)

DS is still breastfed and occasionally (very occasionally) sleeps through the night but usually is up at least twice if not more and I have to deal with him.

I work full time as an academic so on the one hand positively have flexibility but on the other the job is never done and those I am competing with (childless / male) are constantly ahead. We are in a redundancy situation and I need to work harder and harder to keep ahead and a chance of keeping a job / getting a new one.

I am the main wage earner

My DH's job is restrictive in that he can't have flexible working or apparently reduce his hours to part time (although I sense a reluctance to push for it) o I also end up being the main carer and doing more chores. He doesnt earn that much more than our astronomical childcare costs but I respect his desire to work and realise we wont have high costs forever (another 3.5 years).

I have managed to condense my hours so that the two small ones only have to be in childcare 3 days a week. This is a combination of saving money on childcare, because I want to see them and I feel guilty about them being in nursery 5 days a week. I do want this but it means on work days I need to get up at 5.30am to get myself ready and them out of the house to be in work before 8 am. I then rush out on these days to pick up by 4pm and end up working til 11pm ish most nights. Weekends I spend time with the DC's of course but any break from them I work (I usually work weekend evenings too).

The house is a tip. As soon as I tidy someone seems to untidy it again. It is so messy it is stressing me out.

Does anyone have any advice for managing this better? Or just a sympathetic moan? I am considering going part time but this isnt really an option in academia right now and feels a bit of a cop out. It might need a career change.

Sorry this sounds a bit pathetic but I am out of solutions at the moment. I am exhausted.

I do realise how lucky I am to have 3 healthy children, a DH, a job in this climate etc etc I just need strategies to deal with everything.

Sounds like your dh needs to pull his finger out.

It sounds to me as though one of you needs to take a career break for a couple of years. You're an academic - is there research you could be doing or a book you could be writing rather than having to go in to work? You could perhaps consider going back to work in a couple of years as a teacher, rather than university?

It really sounds like you are taking too much of a burden compared to your DH.
Can he really not change his hours at all? You say you think he may be reluctant to push for this. Does he do drop offs on the days when you are working but no pick ups? If you are working compressed hours and having to leave work relatively early that leaves a lot of working hours to be squeezed in somewhere else.
Does he realise how difficult you are finding things?

Lordy, that sounds quite overwhelming!
Can you get a cleaner in to help with the housework? You don't say what your dh does around the house and re getting the kids ready, But I semnse, and forgive me if I'm wrong, it's not a lot.
I think you are going to have to have a bit of a chat about shared workload etc.
You are going to burn yourself out. I'm sorry I haven't got more practical solutions.

Would you consider going back to normal hours at work and putting kids in nursery full-time? You will then not be so rushed at work, rushed to get to work, rushed to get home from work etc. The time you do then have with your kids will be better quality as you hopefully wouldn't always have work to do. Even up to 4 days might be better for you. Lots of people also mix nursery and childminders, you could maybe consider that for one or two of the days to vary the 'intensity' of the care for want of a better word.

Part-time is a a bit of a solution, but there are lots of downsides. Hard to get promoted, not necessarily less work allocated, is a contract change so they might not let you go back to full-time when kids all at school.

It's so hard, but it's not for too long, 3.5 years is going to be over before you know it and you don't want to amend working hours and then wish you hadn't. I think your DH needs to take on a bit more. Mine does one of the nursery drops (kids at separate nurseries until oldest starts school in August) which makes a massive difference. i know he doesn't want to go part-time, but could he amend his hours? Could he start 30mins later and only take a 30 min lunch? Whatever would help out best with drop or collect.

don't worry about the house. Hard to say, mine is a tip too and it sometimes stresses me out, but then I remember I'd rather play with kids. I have a groupon deal cleaner coming on Monday, £30 for 2 people for 2 hours, they're worth watching out for if you can't afford someone all the time. Sometimes I also get DH to help me blitz it, but that can only happen if the kids are at my mum's.

Good luck. It's crap sometimes, innit.

Another thought, my DP works a 4 day week (reduced hours, not compressed) and I have quite a few friends who also share work / childcare to different extents. I think regularly looking after the children and household stuff makes it so much easier to understand why it's such hard work, to appreciate the responsibilty, hassle, and drudgery of looking after small children as well as the pleasure of it. It is then easier to share fairly when you are both home.
If he only earns just enough to cover childcare and you are very hassled (as would we all be in your situation) then by far the most logical thing has to be for him to reduce his hours, if only by a bit. If the female partner was in this situation then this is almost definitely what would hapen.

Sympathy from me. I'm on my own with 2 toddlers and work 3 days a week, it's pretty hard going.

How about getting a nanny who would do some housework too?
I am amazed by people paying for more than 1 child at nursery, as soon as you pay for 2 a nanny would usually be similar cost and with much less hassle in the mornings and evenings.

When your eldest starts school they could drop off and pick up too.

I'm in a similar position, i have 3DC 5, 3 & 1 and DH & I both work fulltime. I spend at least 3 hours a day driving to either pick kids up or drop them off.

I feel exhausted too and to be honest there is nobody else i know in my family/social circle who have 3 young children and both parents work fulltime. Our house is a tip and i end up feeling like i do a crap job at work and at home.

I'm hoping when they are all in school life might get easier in that at least they will all be going to the same place making drop off/pick up easier.

I'm seriously considering a cleaner or sending out our ironing. One things for sure your DH needs to help! My DH is very good and we share the housework stuff 50/50 which to be honest is how it should be.

I've tried my best to work out how we can be better organised, the DC's have a colour assigned to them and all their clothes are hung on that colour hanger etc. We try as far as possible to get as much ready the night before as we can.

If one of you can reduce your hours then do it but if not buy some help with the extra money.

I suppose my advice is try and get some help with the things you can't do like cleaning and ironing. Talk to DH because he has to work with you to tackle the chore type stuff and organisation.

I often feel knackered and out of my depth......i'm trying very hard myself to take the advice i have just given you

Thank you

The problem with DH's job is that it doesn't pay well but is private company with the attitude that if you dont do the job well someone else will. I do believe him on that one. It is very male dominated, early starts so I do understand it would be hard to ask for flexibility.

I hadnt thought of a nanny. Has anyone worked with one? I find rushing off to school run then nursery exhausting. I am paying about £70 a day (2 in nursery and 1 in breakfast and after school club). I could get a decent nanny for that I think? Would they do a bit of tidying too?

A cleaner would be great but the house is too messy for one

oohmatron - if you do I will

peppa i hear you on that one, my house is so bad at the moment that my curtains are drawn all the time and i ignore the door

I plan to have some annual leave and blast it so i can get a cleaner but i have sent out ironing and it was so good when she knocked on the door with all my ironed clothes (I answered it then)

I don't iron so don't have that problem

I can just about keeps downstairs ok but upstairs...

I may go wild and take a week off after half term, leave them in nursery and give it a good blitz. Might reduce some of the stress

A nanny would be better - though you might need to get a cleaning company in for a blitz before interviewing starts!

I have just one child, we both work full time and since we've had a cleaner life has been so much better. It's only 3 hours a week but she does ironing as well and it helps us to get in to a rhythm of always tidying up the night before she comes. Hope you manage to get some more help - it really does sound as if you need it!

Ha ha Bonsoir - quite!

If we had a nanny here DS could also go to a local school rather than one by my work (as I need to drop him and get in as quick as possible).

I will really look into it - and the cleaner!

a nanny really could be the answer...

where are you and how long a day do you need?

£70 is definitley on the lower end of the pay scale for a nanny... BUT (so long as you dont want really long hours Im sure you could find some, perhaps newly qualified, perhaps nursery worker who wants to get into nannying, or definitely a nanny with their own child)

You could quite reasonably ask and expect nanny to do all the childrens laundry, and bedding etc. To keep the toys tidy and in order, and to leave the home as tidy as she finds it.
Also she should cook for the children, and if you are lucky might make a portion big enough for you as well.
Most nannies will empty the dishwasher, or turn it on when full etc....

Of course in September your costs wont go down (as it will if oldest is in nursery now) but she can do the school run so it doesnt need to be a huge mad rush for you. If the childrens laundry is sorted..... and you get a few home cooked meals and freezer slowly stocked with some extra portions of what she makes then you should find you have a lot more time to BE with the children.

I suggest you get a cleaner too, even if just for a couple of hours a week to clean the bathrooms hoover all round, and blitz the kitchen etc it should be much easier to keep on top of.

Of course if nanny is only working 3 days a week you cant expect her to do ALL the childrens laundry, but doing the beds perhaps on one day, and a load on each of the other days she works and it should take some of the pressure off you.

You will have a few increased costs though... heating during the day in winter (when house might be empty) lunches for your children (& the nanny) its normal for nanny to eat meals with the children, and a few £ here and there for toddler groups etc, +45p per mile if nanny drives her own car.

If nanny is ofstead approved you can use you childcare vouchers as part of her payment too.

A nanny will be the way to go. Especially if it's for more than 2 children.

'The problem with DH's job is that it doesn't pay well but is private company with the attitude that if you dont do the job well someone else will. I do believe him on that one. It is very male dominated, early starts so I do understand it would be hard to ask for flexibility'.

Obviously some jobs, particularly very senior jobs, don't lend themselves well to anything other than full time hours. However, it seems to me that the great majority of jobs can be done perfectly well with some degree of flexibility, whether it be part time or compressed hours or late starts or early finishes or some combination of the above. You sound like you are also working in a male dominated field yet you are managing (just about) to work flexibly. I have heard men say that they couldn't reduce their hours yet when women do the same job it suddenly appears to be perfectly possible to do the job well but part time and the sky doesn't fall in (had this conversation recently with a consultant surgeon who didn't seem to have noticed that some very competent women were doing a very good part-time job).
I think it is in all our interests, children, women and men, to encourage these sort of male dominant environments to gradually change their ways.

It seems to me to be grossly unfair that both of you work full-time but that you are also the main carer and have to do most of the chores. A cleaner may be good, different childcare arrangements may be more convenient but that is surely the major problem.

Thursday - you are right. He should ask for flexibility - especially as he is barely earning more than the childcare so I feel he is just creating problems sometimes (however I do realise this is short term, right to work etc). However his field is particularly at risk right now and we both worry that if he 'kicks up a fuss' he might be without a job. Although he is hiding behind this to some extent too.

Thanks Nanny I am going to look at nanny costs - we are in a cheaper area of the country so it might buy quite a bit at say £9 per hour. Childminding is about £3.50 max per hour for each child.

Peppa - in your post there is lots about arrangements/hours/costs

But what do YOU want? How would your ideal life be?

You working full time? Not at all? What is your ideal choice?

Do you have a spare room? If so I would consider an au pair. The au pair could do all the pick ups and drop offs and mind the kids 'yil you get home. If any of the kids are ill the au pair could care for them while you work. Plus, unlike a nanny an au pair can be asked to clean. They are very cheap as most of their pay is board. You can write regular babysitting into their contract.

I think there is a rule about au-pairs NOT having sole charge of children under a certain age. Too many people treat au-pairs like slaves TBH.

Peppa, I don't think you neccesarily have to 'kick up a fuss' to arrange some flexibility at work. We have both arranged flexible / part-time hours over the last few years and we always try and keep in mind the needs of our workplaces as well as the needs of our families when we make arrangements. So in DPs last job he usually worked 3 long days, which was fine, but in his current job he ideally needs to be around more, so he didn't request this but asked for 4 normal length days and we sorted out childcare accordingly. We try to be flexible where we can, and if possible will swap days if either of us has something important going on at work. Our employers have generally appreciated this.
So if there is no precedent of part-time working at your DHs workplace, then bowling in and asking for a 2 day week is probably not going to go down very well. However, a couple of late starts or early finishes or a 4 day week may work OK. Thinking about which times it is essential you are at work, and which times are not so important is a good starting point. If it's always really busy on a Monday, or you have regular meetings on a Thursday, then there's not much point asking for those days off. If your DH can come up with a sensible proposal and discusses it with his boss, he can then make it clear what a reasonable person he is and how he has considered the needs of his emlpoyer. DP uses the phrase 'slightly reduced hours' rather than 'part-time' to describe his 4 day week.

When DP is looking after the kids I can work as long as I need to (go in early or finish late or both) and I don't have to take time off if they are sick.

Have you tried to timetable your working hours? If you are trying to work full time but only spend 3 days of 8 hours or so at work then that leaves an awful lot of work to be squeezed in the rest of the time. You must have virtually no free time, which must be really difficult, especially if you are up in the night. In your position I think I would prefer to work a 4 day week, even if that had to mean an extra days childcare. I would probably then leave the kids with DH and go to the library and work every Saturday from 9-1 or something, leaving the rest of the weekend for proper family time without (hopefully) being too exhausted and hassled to enjoy it.
Is DH free to do what he likes in the evenings while you are working, or does he need to work as well? If he is free, I would ask him to do a small amount of household stuff sometimes, like an internet shop or half an hours cleaning or tidying or something, especially if you are stressed at the state of the house.