Is it down to luck or parental influence whether siblings get on well?

[emkana]

my friend thinks it's down to the parents.

My dd's, who are nine and seven, adore each other, with only occasional bickering. They have a younger brother whois often horrible to them, but they are extremely patient with him, perhaps because of his special needs.

I dont feel like I have influenced this behaviour, just that I'm lucky. What do you think?

your friend is labouring under a misapprehension

it's luck

Luck and the age gap between them and maybe gender mix? I don't think it's parenting because my experiences have been so different - I have two adult DCs, a long gap, then two much younger DCs.

I had a less than 2 year gap between DS1 and DD, and they hated each other pretty much from Day One. It never really stopped - some brief periods of closeness, but endless squabbling (they're adults now - get on well with a distance of 150 miles or so).
DS2 and DS3 - 4 year gap, have always been very close, no arguments.

Complete and utter luck.

DS1 and DD1 can't stand each other
DD1 and DD2 adore each other
DS1 and DD2 quite like each other

Same parenting, go figure.

Nature, nurture, developmental stages and a dollop of luck for good measure. So the same as any other aspect of parenting and behaviour really.

My 2 DSs currently hate each other 80% of the time and seem to live to antagonise the other, but during that other 20% of the time they are patient and caring and get on really well. The constant scrapping is a pretty new thing, but my parenting style hasn't changed at all so I assume it is either developmental (pre-teens) or due to the impending upheaval in their lives.

It's a complex mix; I'd say at best parents can help siblings to behave externally and maybe to work through their problems. When I was little my elder brother and I bickered a lot, mainly through my fault it has to be said. Nothing to do with our parents, just clashing personalities. Otoh I got on very well with my younger brothers. Now that we are grown-up we all get on well together. If my parents had any role I would say it was in teaching me that you have to make an effort. Or perhaps I just matured.

Luck. DB and I have never got on. DH and his brothers are more like cousins as there is a big age gap between the two of them and him, but the two elder are very close

Pure luck! The parents can do whatever they like, if they don't get on they don't get on. It can change-sometimes they are best friends when older.

I know identical twins who hate each other-life is a constant fight-they are just too much alike.

I'm sure bad parenting can make sibling problems worse. I'm not convinced good parenting can make children get on, though.

Smug parents pat themselves on the back for all sorts of things that are pure luck! They only need a 3rd rebellious personality to prove them wrong!
It is just like parents with a beautifully behaved DC1, they think it is them and along come DC2 who breaks every rule in the book!!

Also think it's luck.

So far, ds1 and ds2 get on very well together - a 3.5 year gap.

Eldest is extremely generous, patient and loving with his little brother and all I can do is praise him as it's so sweet.

I think it is a bit of both

If you have siblings that don't get on then there is often fuck all you can do about it
If you have siblings that adore each other then nothing can usually break that up.

But I do think that parents can create a better environment for children to get on well, can intervene if problems are building and can help sort things out through tricky patches to stop problems taking hold.

We had to help our three for various reasons. I fucked things up at times and didn't help at all but ultimately we have managed to help them communicate and understand each others point of view. That is a big part of siblings falling out I think - lack of empathy.

So. A bit of both. If you are lucky.

I think parenting makes a big difference as to how they handle their relationship. Next door to me are two kids who are sent out into the garden after school every day and then ignored. The older girl spends her time bossing the younger one around and covertly being not great, the little boy spends his time screaming and crying.

I so want to lean out of the window and jolly them along. Why the hell the parents don't intervene and manage the situation I can't imagine. All those kids are learning is nastiness and frustration.

You can't make siblings with clashing personalities get on like a house on fire, but like Hullygully, I do think parents can make a difference to how they behave towards one another. My two eldest adore each other with intermittent bouts of bickering (they're like an old married couple sometimes!) but the other two get on with each other and the older two less well. They're still expected to be polite and considerate however - I don't expect them all to be best friends but I do expect a minimum level of politeness and respect.

I've come across parents (mine included) who downright expected sibling rivalry and quelle surprise, that's what they got!

Age and luck. I used to despise my youngest sister. She is now one of my best friends. We still have the occassional fight. We still fight badly when we do fight, but mainly we get on very well.

Dd1 and dd2 atm adore each other. I am very well aware this could change.

luck, age gap and temperament of dc's involved much more important than parents imo
dc1 gets on fine with all her sibs , when she was younger occasional squabbles with dc2 17 months younger .
dc2 again very easy going very rarely argues with his siblings
dc3 again the odd squabble but basically gets on well with her sibs
dc6 again very the odd bicker especially with dc5 18 months older
dc7 again very rarely bickers with his siblings occasional arguments , is really sweet with dc8 3 year age gap etc
dc8 only 14 months but so far so good

now before i get a big head and start thinking i'm supermum as i have managed yo have 8 dcs who never fight we now come to dc4 and dc5.

2 boys 17 months now 13 and 11 apart who if bickering was a sport would be olympic and world champs ten times over leaving the rest of the field in their wake.

part of their problem is i think being the same gender (all the others close in age have been boy then girl or girl then boy ) and close in age they are very competive . they also both have very similar temperaments very determined stubborn , always very loathe to back down . they nit pick , provoke one another constantly usually dc4 winding up ds3 , although they deny they are arguing usually over the most unimportant irrevelant things eg whose shoes are the blackiest .

i think they actually enjoy it . they can get on very well when given a task usually outdoors to do and at scouts etc and if anyone out side the home were to pick on the other they are very protective of each other.

Luck whether they genuinely get on well, but like others said I think there's a bit of parenting involved in teaching them how to treat other people with kindness and respect - despite the sibling exemption clause!

Me and my sis used to get on great in the early years, then she became a teenager and we hated each other. We were so different. Our relationship improved hugely when she went to uni and lived in another country

Now we get on great, and I'm gutted that we see so little of each other because we live so far apart.

My kids have a 5.10 year gap between them, I also think that plays a big part in sibling relationships. Atm they get on pretty well the small one absolutely adores his big bro (he's bereft the day after school hols, and spends the majority of the day behind the front door calling for his partner in crime him), and the big one is very protective and keen to teach his little bro all sorts of stuff. Suspect it'll change as they get older, but I think there's probably not much influence I can have over their relationship (aside from insisting on civility as a minimum!).

I think parents can create or exacerbate sibling rivalry by favouritism, constantly comparing the children, being stricter to the one who screams less (!) etc.. But, I don't think parents can do a lot to alleviate the problem...

I'm with Pagwatch and Hully on this one..
Temperament is paramount, of course.. but parents have to keep an eye on things,try to make sure no unfair situations arise... and help them through those that invariably will.
In my own family, hugely different temperaments have meant that there is a tendency to sibling rivalry. I happen to think that the fact that my parents did NOTHING to teach us how to overcome it is the real reason it has been a problem all these years.
My 2 are only 3 and 5, girl and boy, and I work bloody hard at it. For the mo they get on great.. of course they squabble, but that's what siblings are for. So maybe I'm lucky, but, on this particular topic, I think my input has been important.

mamsnet - absolutely, they have to be taught to understand how the other one feels, why they are different, suitable methods of approach etc etc, let alone turn taking, sharing...

I think a lot of it's luck. My dd and ds get on really well, but I often wonder how it would be if ds were the older sibling. DD is a bit bossy, but is freakishly emotionally intelligent for a 5 year-old and has learnt to 'manage' ds very well - which sounds a bit controlling, but I mean that she knows how to calm him down, or encourage him to play a game with her or cheer him up when he's grumpy. She even uses a bit of reverse psychology on him sometimes. I do worry that she's a bit machiavellian for her age...

A bit of both I think. My older brother has still not got over me being born, and he's 36. My parents actively encouraged sibling rivalry when we were younger - telling one of us how much better the other one was. He was encouraged to pick on me, and got a laugh when he did whilst I got the blame. I think they felt guilty towards him about me being born, and made it obvious by always letting him have his own way over me. It wasn't so much my resentment - I was pretty easygoing - but more that he saw how they treated me and followed suit.

I'm not saying we'd automatically have got on if this hadn't happened, but I doubt it helped.

I'm with all those who say it is a mixture of temperament and guidence. I have six, two are adults now and get on fine, plus four small bods who can fall out on occasions (my six year old daughter can get bored and wind them all up, the little minx) but with some steering and distraction we can usually sort it all out. Plus they are all quite verbal (and some!) so would rather talk about their problems with each other rather than squabble.

Actually, thinking about it, my oldest son, who has moved back home after his getting his degree, has been a good influence on them all. He is very patient and caring with them all, which has a knock-on effect, eg his seven year old brother admires him very much and emulates his big brother's behaviour with the younger children and his kind behaviour trickles down to the others.

DH and I have been very keen though to foster good relationships between the children. His family were very aggresive and his mother had serous MH issues so the children were almost feral. They had to fight for everything: food, space, attention, and the family encouraged (and were amused by) the tensions among the children. And my family have never encouraged sibling harmony, so we have prized and rewarded kindness and thoughtfulness between the children. Which seems to have worked.

Sometimes, though, we just have to split up the warring factions