Circumcision confusion

[Perdita1]

Hi there. I'm new here and still trying to find my way around so apologies if Im repeating threads posted elsewhere or posting in the wrong place!

We're going to start ttc at the end of the year but Im already stressing about whether or not, if we have a son, we get him circumcised. My husband is Jewish, which is the only reason it's a possibility. He and his family think it's the most normal thing in the world but I'm not quite so sure. I've never seen one done but Ive been told by Jewish people I have spoken to that it's not a big deal but the thought of putting any child through even the slightest pain just makes me feel sick and I would never forgive myself if anything went wrong.

So I guess my question is, could anyone give me any idea of the likelihood of complications or exactly how distressing it is for a child? I've been told the reason why it's done so young is because there are very few nerves in the foreskin then - is that true? Apologies if Im sounding clueless!

Thanks in advance!

My DS is, had to be for medical reasons. It wasnt life and death or anything but more than essential if he wanted to wee without tubes by the time he became an adult. If you want i will find my post that explaine the process (medical) from my point of view for my son. But it isnt favourable.

if i were you i would do a (mumsnet) search on this. This topic gets very heated and often leave the op feeling like crap :/

Sorry, just wanted to give you a heads up

Oh gosh, just do a search for previous threads, this topic usually gets quite heated.

My own opinion is that nothing short of medical necessity would make me consider circumcision. It is painful and I think it's cruel. The foreskin is a whole third of their penis as a newborn!

Please, for your son's sake, think very very carefully and do some proper research rather than taking the word of people who have a vested interest in you believing it's a painless procedure. Your son needs you to protect him. He can always get circumcised later if he chooses but a foreskin can never be replaced.

There aren't fewer nerve endings in the penis as a baby. It will hurt him.

X-post with babydubs. Hope I haven't left you feeling like that, it's not my intention.

I don't know much about it, but I would say if you and your husband do decide to go ahead with the procedure, please make sure it is done in a medical setting with proper anaesthetics and backup if problems do occur, rather than as part of some religious ceremony in an unsterile environment.

if you do do it, you still need to use some anasthetic on a baby its not true that they can't feel it or have few nerve endings etc, it would still hurt. you can get a numbing cream from the chemists i think?
i get how you feel op, our babies need to have it done aswel for religious reasons (muslim) but we havent got it done because we feel sorry for them and too worried about it so kept putting it off and still putting it off til now, and now expecting 3rd boy but not done ne of them yet..
however out of all my friends i only kno of one persons son who had a complication with it, and everyone has had it done, i think i am about the only person i know who has left it late and not got it done for them as newborn.
im thinking possibly if/when they eventually get it done when they are a bit older so they understand it then i might feel bit better about it, but i dont think it will be easy to put your child through pain at any age really. but if its the normal thing for your religion and culture they probably would want it done eventually and i dont think they would thank us as an adult for never getting it done..
if they are not done as a newborn you could have it done when they are older as an operation in hospital with general anasthetic if you would feel better about that. probably that is what we will have to do at some point. but still i dont really know if we have done the right decision to do this or if we should have got it out the way as a newborn baby, i agree it can be confusing what to do

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/pregnancy/1113607-Wow-its-only-circumcision/AllOnOnePage

this is a long one.....but general circumcision discussion on here....

I apologise for the rants of mine you will come across, its something i feel strongly against but are in no way directed at someone who is genuinly asking questions about it.

just watch a youtube video of it being done, it's not nice to watch so if you can't bear to watch then you know you won't be able to put your son through it.

same as oko, only medical necessity would make me consider it, and then it would be the very last resort.

there is also quite a large amount of men who undergo foreskin replacement OPs after being done as babies.

Thanks so much all of you for replying (and for the heads up baby dubs!). I can imagine how emotive a topic it can be but it's something I want to get clear in my head before ttc. I'll do a search as suggested and see what I can find out!

Cattleprod - I totally agree - if we were to do it I would insist on someone medically trained.

Okonomiyaki - not at all! I'd rather have brutal honesty so I can get a clear picture of all the facts and you make very good points.

Firawia - it's great to hear from someone who has it as part of their culture who doesn't justbtake for grantedbit should be done. Makes me feel better about not just automatically going along with it!

OP read my link, its as good as any other debate on here about it, lots of links on that one for medical info.

My DS had a medical circumcision in hospital under general anestetic. i honestly dont understand how anyone who feels anything for their child could see them go through that without medical grounds. My DS was born with hypospadia (sp) it was getting worse so had to be done. It was the day before his birthday. He had no complications. Everything works fine now.

I would rather hack my legs off with a spoon before i could put my poor boy through that again. He still completely freaks out if you try to touch him, to sponge him in the bath etc, not even touch him. Completely freaks. He was in agony for a good week atleast afterwards. And terrified by the whlole experience. i had to hold him whilst he was gassed to sleep, while he fought and struggled and panicked looking terrified. When he woke fought his way of the nurse and started running round, i had to catch him in the recovery room shaking like a leaf and sobbing. i know this sound emotive. but it is. sorry.

This was the highly recomended platibell method. you could see the pin pricks around the penis that are supposed to block the pain. after the op everytime he wee'd he screamed earpiercingly and even after the pain stopped he was scared and would hold himself as long as poss. he sobbed everytime for ages after. He had painkillers for about a week after. They took the edge off i expect but he was still in pain. you could see it in his face. he couldnt sleep, he wasnt potty trained then and when he fell asleep he relaxed obviously and the hold he had been keeping on his bladder would relax, he would wee a bit, wake up screaming, stop the flow, eventually fall asleep again.....repeat for 3 days or so. awful, just awful.

sorry i know this was long, and not very helpful. Just our experience.

Christ babydubs, poor you. And your poor, poor ds :( :( :(

My aunt (Israeli Jew) had her son circumcised at 8 days old and said he was irritable for about 24 hours then fine.

I had my two circumcised,one at age 1 and one at age 2,Of course under local anaesthetics .it is not nice to watch it hapening,it is heart braking.But i felt the nececity to be there.they were irritable for about 24 hour,they still had there nappy one.Every thing went fine with us.The more you leave it till the child gets older the harder it is for him,as the skin mature.
Good luck with whatever desicion you take .

All the lads on my DS ward were mainly 18months - 2.5 years, (my DS 2yrs)

if you read the thread i linked to you will see various links about babies going into shock and not presenting any signs of trauma.

Would it be acceptable to cut a catotonic patient? They could not show the pain so would that be okay? hmmm.

Im leaving this now, its pointless, as with all the other threads abot this, people rarely change their views, culture to engrained.

I read there's evidence that newborns suffer pain even more so than we do, which is why breastmilk contains a form of pain releif for them in the early stages.
I would leave his willy the way nature intended it to be. The NHS certainly won't pay for it, and the WHO says it's not recommended as routine procedure.
The jewish family won't really be looking at his wang anyway will they?
Circumsision does cause a lot of nerve endings to be damaged in the end of the penis sadly, I read a study which showed circumsiced men in america are more likely to take part in more extreme forms of sex, because they're not AS fully satisfied with normal sex as they would have been.
I wouldn't mess with it unless necessary
I don't think you'd have appreciated your labia being cut off for tradition?

babydubs I agree this is a debate that can go on forever because it's a really emotive subject for people on both sides, but people sharing their very real experiences with it, is a brilliant thing, so thanks for sharing that.

Perdita, circumcision for medical reasons is one thing - if the foreskin has to be removed because of problems then, fair enough, it should go.

Doing it for cultural reasons is a separate thing entirely. If you do have a son then he should be the one who decides what happens to his penis. He can make that decision when he's old enough to make an informed choice. Don't take that choice away from him.

Would you cut any other bits off your baby without any medical need? Would your DH? If not then why cut this bit off?

BIL had it done as an adult (for medical reasons). He was in a small amount of pain for a very short while, but was back at work within three days. Any DS you may have can make that decision for himself when he is old enough to consent. Please don't do it to a baby.

DS done for religious reasons, in the traditional manner (no local anaesthetic) but by a qualified dr. He cried for less time than for his newborn heel prick. He had one dose of calpol (under medical supervision). The dr who did it arranged appropriate follow up. DS had a dressing for a few days, but no dramas at all. healing time less than a week. I and DH thought long and hard about it, but our religious back grounds made circumcision pretty much mandatory, it was just a question of how we went about it. We had a choice, subject our baby to injections to numb it, and a hospital surgeon (who does a couple a week), or have a hospital surgeon who does a dozen a week in people's homes. Having spoken to lots of friends, the decision was straightforward for us. I understand it's hard for you if this is not traditional in your family. Even more so than it was for us. As you are not jewish, your child will never be considered Jewish unless he converts. As part of the conversion process he will be have to have some sort of symbollic "circumcision" (i know cos my brother's friend did it). So either way, for your DS to be fully accepted as a jew he will need to go through this. I think the decision is less clear for you than it was for us, however, if your main concern is the practicalities of the procedure, IMO it was not as awful as I expected, and done early on ( on the 8th day as traditonal) it all sort of fades into the general madness of having a newborn. Neither my DH nor DS seem scarred by it! Incidentally, you might have to do some research to find someone who uses traditonal methods who will circumcise your DS if yo are not jewish.

btw, 1. the earlier it is done the less traumatic, 2. use of general anaesthetic more necessary the older the child. General anaesthetic carries its own, more serious and more frequent set of risks. 3. a very large proportion of people who do jewish circumcisions are doctors. finding someone like this is unlikely to be a problem.

My brother was circumcised in a completely church of england family. He says he thinks it is the coolest thing that ever happened to him and would recommend it to anyone. He told me stories (after lots of wine!) about boys at school who would stink when they got undressed or went to the toilet and he was so amazed that everyone didn't get circumcised. I remember him being out with friends and completely not knowing what the 'cheesy knob' jokes boys made about themselves were about.

the earlier it is done the less traumatic

Maybe for the parent.... you have no idea how a baby felt as it is known they go into shock. Newborns feel pain the same as you do, would you have an operation without anestetic? crackers. just crackers.

and a surgeon does a couple a week?? where the heck did you get that from? My DS was booked in with 10 kids in one day, he did surgery 3 days a week with one day for follow ups and a day for pre consultation. so 30 kids in a week! Your 'facts' may make you feel better but you really should avoid telling other people this as it simply isnt true and downright misleading.

If you are going to butcher your child at least have the guts to call a spade a spade.

Really am leaving this now.

Your brothers friends need telling to wash, your brother should still wash his dick even without forskin so i cant see a difference??