2 under 15 months

[Trudyla]

Hi all,

I've not ventured out much from my safe post natal thread so this is my first post in parenting.

I have a nine months old daughter and am 14 weeks pregnant with number 2, due end of October.

I have panicked a bit about the small age gap and have decided to prepare as much as possible (I love a good plan).

1. I'm worried about how my first baby will feel about the new one and how I can make it as easy as possible on her so she doesn't feel at all pushed out.

2. I also wonder how I will cope with two, I already get very little else - other than baby - done, because she doesn't want to be put down or left alone for even just a second. How am I gonna deal with two? How am I gonna make sure both are happy?

So I would appreciate any advice, tips or anything you can offer. Maybe you could also recommend a good book or two, to help me prepare.

Thank you all in advance,

Trudy

Congratulations on your pregnancy - I'm sorry I've no advice but didn't want to leave you unanswered.

Thanks so much, BrokenBanana.

I'm bumping this up again, to see if somebody might have some tips. I did a search too, and there seems to be some ideas for 2 under 2, I just wonder if 15 months is quite different. I'm not sure what a child will be like at 15 months but I feel like it will be difficult to explain certain things to her as she is still so tiny. All the books out there seem to focus on when they are a bit older and understand things like, there is a baby in mummy's tummy.

So any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I have 15 month age gap. It genuinely was not as bad as I thought it was going to be (especially when everyone seems to give you raised eyebrows and sympathetic tuts!)

There's a big difference between 9 months and 15 months for a start. I actually found in a way I had less explaining to do as dd1 was so young so we didn't do much of the "baby in the tummy stuff".

The physical side is quite hard (two dc to lift in and out of cots, two sets of nappies to change, etc) but your dd1 will still be napping in the day which is a huge help.

Are you planning to bf? Get a little bag of special toys/books (new things or favourite items) that only comes out when you're feeding baby - that way dd1 will get special time sitting next to you while oyu feed and hopefully be less resentful of the time spent on that.

My dd1 loved her baby sister from day 1 and hardly ever showed any sign of jealousy at all. And now, at 4.3 and nearly 3, the girls love each other so much. It's worth it. It's hard work, but so is any age gap to be honest. I'm not expecting dc3 with a 3 year age gap which will be easier in some ways (physically etc) but harder in others I think.

Good luck

Hey trudy

I thought i'd just come along to bump ya as I probably can't offer much help with your question of a 15m gap (ours was 21m) other than I'd heard that the smaller the gap the more accepting the older child usually is. We've certainly had very little jealousy here.

The only other thing I'd say about managing 2 under 2 is to beg or buy as much help as you can e.g. some hours at nursery for the oldest one, a cleaner, someone to iron (if you're in the pro-ironing camp ), regular baby-sitters so you can go out with dh, and also someone to pamper YOU so regular facials or massages etc). For me that makes the difference between just coping and actively enjoying life with 2 small children. I'm generally a pretty happy, relaxed mother (and the DCs obviously benefit from that) but I don't know if I would be without all that help/time off.

Personally, I'd rather go without other non-essential stuff or do some extra work to earn more dosh than give up the cleaner or nursery hours!

another bump for your trudy

Thanks a lot both.

It's so refreshing to hear that it might be not as bad as I fear. I also get a lot of the raised eyebrows so have started to panic

norkily I thought there might be not much point in explaining a lot about the baby at the moment cos she just is too tiny to understand. Thanks for confirming that.

Thanks for the tip about special toys when breast feeding. That's a great idea. Judging by her current favourites I would have to put remote controls, mobile phones and my make up in there (only closed bottles, don't worry)

It's lovely to hear that your dd1 loved her baby sister straight away.

cake Thanks for bumping me

I am most firmly in the non ironing corner, so no worries there. Good idea about a cleaner. I have real trouble accepting help from friends and family and feel all awkward about it and I feel so guilty that the help is not really worth it. So paid help might be my way to go.

Ooops, she's just waking from her nap. Gotta run. Thanks again.

Thanks Banana

X-bumped

I've got 3, with 15 months between each one.

The important thing to remember (and I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm stating the obvious!) is that 15 months is still a baby. I say this specifically because I know I forgot it time and time again. It's only when I look back now on photos of when DS1 was born, that I see how much of a baby DD still was herself.

So the number one piece of advice is not to over-estimate what your DD should / will be able to do. In some ways, I found it easier to think of them as twins, but with slightly different skill sets!

I don't have any sound advice about things like matching up their nap routines, because mine were disastrous sleepers anyway, so I just used to put them in the double buggy and go out for long walks in the hope they'd go to sleep!

I think if you're going to be sitting and feeding the new baby for any prolonged period, you need to make sure you've corralled the older baby successfully, with enough stuff to interest them, and no means of escape!

We got DD a little baby doll and accessories just before DS1 was born, so whenever I was changing him, she would trot off and get her baby too! DD absolutely loved DS1 from day 1 (I think DS1 was a bit more ambiguous about DS2 when he came along!) and she was very gentle, so I moved quickly to bathing them together, sitting them in the cot together if I needed to tidy their room or anything.

Also, I don't know what your relationship with DH / DP is like, or how you split the work at home, but it's vital that you have him completely on board and ready to do things. Actually, I would give this advice to anyone having a second child, whatever the gap. I think a lot of the stuff I found hard could have been helped if I hadn't had such a complex about doing everything myself.

Overall, I think I really avoided any of the sibling rivalry stuff that you hear about from parents with a 2 - 3 year gap. None of my DCs can remember a life without the others, and whilst we're not without our problems, sibling rivalry really isn't one of them (so far...!!)

Now (and they're 7, 6 and 5) the small age gap is completely fantastic. They're all entertained by the same days out, same films, often the same books, they all eat the same food, they're all in infant school together so they look out for each other at playtime. I really wouldn't have it any other way.

First of all congratulations! I thimk it's great for the kids to have aiblings that are close in age, since they will be great playmates.

I have a 19month old daughter and 4 month old twins. I definitely wouldn't be able to handle all three children and the household alone. We have a housekeeper who is also great with the children plus a part-time nanny, since there always need to be at least two adults to look after the three, at least for now. I'm sure itvwill get easier when they are older.

While you'll be looking after 2 kids (and not 3 like me), I think that you are right in thinking about practicalities of everyday life ahead of the time. If you can afford it, my advice would be to delegate all the housework and some or all cooking to a housekeeper, so that you are free to look after your kids. (I didn't want to pay a babysitter or nanny to play with my kids while I was doing tedious housework.)

One thing I find difficult, and which I'm afraid will get even more difficult in a few months time, is that my older daughter wants to go out to the playground or wherever, while the twin babies need their floor time to play and develop their motoric skills. In winter, it's also too cold to feed the twin babies outside. I.e. the kids have different needs which are not always compatible. It helps if you have help who can either take your older kid outside or look after the baby while you're out with the older one.

Thank you all so much.

Some great advice and I'm soaking it all up.

I have to say the thing that I find most helpful is that you all say how nice it will be in the future and how nice it will be for them to play together and always have playmates. This is the reason we chose to have them so close together but the "raised-eyebrow-league" almost made me forget about that and just worry.

Expecto I love the idea of getting a baby doll for my daughter so we can change and feed babies together. Made me well up a bit.

My DP is amazing and we really share housework and all tasks equally. I still feel guilty if he does stuff when I'm having a break but I assume that won't be happening so much then, will it

etude Wow, three under 2, you are doing such an amazing job. Thanks for taking the time and replying to me. I will have to think hard about how to keep my older baby happy and entertained when the new one is here since it's gonna be the winter months, so extra tricky, but I'm sure it will work out somehow.

Once again, thank you all so much for helping me out here. I feel much more relaxed and ready for it now and actually start looking forward to our new addition, just as it should be.

I have 3 with a 16 month gap between each and I have to agree there has been no sibling rivalry. They just accept that a baby has arrived.

The naps never were in sync for me. DS1 wasn't great with naps at this point so if I could get him down for a nap, I concentrated on this because I knew the baby would sleep when out and about.

I found feeding slightly harder because I breastfed and keeping DS1 occupied whilst I did this was impossible. He had an attention span of about 10 minutes for anything you presented him with. It was actually easier to feed DS3 because DS1 had DS2 to keep him entertained.

I had 3 in nappies and now that I'm down to just 1 who is toilet training, I don't know how I managed it but I did! I actually bought different brands of nappies for each child so that they were easily identified in the nappy bag!

Mine are now 5, 4 & 3 and they are so much easier to handle. They are not as intensive as they were and whilst they do have their moments, they generally play very well together because they enjoy the same things.

As for a book, you don't need one. Trust your instincts, you've done it once and you can do it again. Just get yourself and the children into a good routine. Routine is everything at that age.

my oldest 2 were 17 months apart and i did find it true like some people have said, didnt really get a lot of jealousy and older one adapted v quick to baby so i think that will be the case for you hopefully. its also good they have similar routines, both still having a nap in the day etc. i think it might be easier than you expect, well for mine it was. if your dd is walking by then it might make her that bit more independant and moved on from the 'cant put her down or be left alone' stage

Hi Trudy, I have a 16mth age gap between my two boys - I did find the first few months v hard, but DS2 was a v difficult baby and was born Oct 2009 in one of the most severe winters we've had for years so we were stuck in for months! .

Having said that, they are now 3.11yrs and 19mths and they are so so close, and I would totally agree about the sibling rivalry. A lot of my friends are having No 2 now and the older one is really struggling whereas DS1 just took it in his stride (and is brilliant with babies too ).

My top tips are:
lower your standards
sleep whenever you can
accept whatever help is offered

Have fun!

trudy just thought i'd post again to say that i had all the same worries about having 2 (let alone under 2) that you've got but now, just 9months on, not having dd is unimaginable for all of us. i'm happier now than i've ever been.

the first 3months were pretty mad, the next 3 were easier but still hairy at times (meal times in particular) and then i've found it smooth sailing and mostly enjoyable from 6m til now. it's amazing how quickly having 2 becomes the new norm for you.

the other thing i'd suggest is to get a good routine in place - i don't mean a nap/feed/sleep routine so much as a social routine to keep you sane. i have lots of different things planned each week which i know will be enjoyable for the 3 of us. e.g. we go to the library every week where ds chooses his books for the weeks, i read a couple to him and dd crawls around and paws the board books. Find a decent soft-play place (they do exist) which has a good area for small and older babies/toddlers - we go once a week with friends who have 2 the same ages and the toddlers go off and do their thing some of the time and the babies can have a play too. We also do play-dates (dreadful word, sorry) with friends at our houses, so the toddlers can let off steam together, the babies can do their thing and we can gossip and drink tea

try to enjoy this time too rather than spend it all worrying - this is the only time you'll be pg with this baby, cherish the moment

15 months between my 2 as well!

I made sure I baby-proofed the downstairs, so I didn't have to suddenly rescue DS1 whilst in the middle of feeding DS2.

I lowered my standards and used the TV a lot more than previously.

DH became responsible if DS1 woke in the night (he rarely does to be honest) as I had to wake up to feed DS2.

I co-slept with DS2 as I was breastfeeding,,,it meant I could doze off and I missed out on less sleep.

I went out to friends' houses during the day as much as possible, keeping all of us sane.

Honestly, it was mostly pretty much okay! The first six months were a bit tough but that's because DS2 was poorly when he was born. I love having two of them so close. You will be fine.

Thanks for more responses. Really useful tips there.

Pleiades45 That's a fantastic idea about different brands of nappies, I will def do that to avoid confusion.

Firawla I don't have much hope of my daughter walking by then. She doesn't crawl yet and is fairly unsteady on her feet. But who knows, maybe she will get more independent when she can crawl.

KnittingRocks I find it so interesting what you all say about no sibling rivalry. I would have expected the opposite and I am quite relieved that that doesn't seem to be the case.

Cake I will try and make myself go out for social things. I think that will be the hardest thing for me. I was never very confident about breastfeeding in public and I was always so, so scared that the baby would cry in a public place and everyone would stare at me and tut. I imagine that will even get worse with two, but I will have to try and get out. It won't be made easier by the fact that we will move back to the UK not long after the birth (maybe 4 months) to an area where I don't know anyone. But I'm sure I will find soft play places and a library or two to go to. (where to you find out about places for kids?)

Undutchable (love your name, do you have dutch connections?) You've uttered the scary words of baby-proofing. We've thought about it for so long, but couldn't face it yet, but I assume, we can't put it off much longer.
I'm all for lowering standards. Did you find that your 15 months old was interested in the TV already? That might come in handy when I'm breastfeeding the other, cos my first one can't really be occupied for longer than 5 minutes by anything though I haven't tried telly yet.

Another question for all: When you say, accept all the help you can get. What do you mean by that? I can't really think of much else other than getting a cleaner. I can't leave my first baby with anyone else (and I don't really want to) as she won't go to anyone, other than her dad and me. And I sometimes find that when people are trying to help it just makes things more complicated as I have to explain where things are and if they, say, cook for me, I am left with a bigger pile of washing up, than if I just had a sandwich.

Thanks.

OK - 'accepting all the help you can get'

Your DD is currently 9 months old, which is the absolute prime stage for becoming clingy. I don't believe in distressing babies by forcing this issue, but you just have to keep plugging away with introducing her to new people, moving away from her when she's playing, and so on. And don't forget that a 15 month old is a very different creature from a 9 month old, and a 20 month old different again, and so on. As she develops, she will become more confident about going with other people. By the time the baby is born, she'll probably be walking, which allows her to move away from you. The situation will be constantly evolving.

Accepting all help means many things. For some people, (depending on economic circumstances) it might mean a cleaner or a nanny, but for most people it means saying 'yes please' very gracefully if someone offers to push your baby round the park in its pram so you can have half an hour's time with DD.

Or letting someone wash the dishes for you even if you've got to put them away afterwards. Or empty your tumble dryer into your ironing basket.

Or in the supermarket, letting someone (usually a complete stranger) be an extra pair of hands to steady the trolley while you load two babies into the babyseats.

Or spoon food into DD's mouth while you BF the baby. Or by giving the baby a bottle (of formula or EBM, not making any feeding assumptions ) while you make DD a meal.

The key thing (and I'm not suggesting you're doing this, I'm basing it on my own experiences) is not to assume that someone is offering to help because they think you're making a mess of it or because you can't cope. People offer to help because generally they're nice people, and usually women who've had children themselves have very short memories about how much hard work it is! Practice smiling and saying 'That would be wonderful' (and hopefully you'll be better at it than I ever was!!)

Actually I forgot that TV was a lifesaver! It's not for everyone but definitely helped keep DD1 happy when I was busy with nappies/feeding etc.

And yes, agreed about accepting help. Even someone making you a cup of tea or holding the baby (someone once kindly did that as DD2 screamed in the buggy while DD1 was getting her feet measured in Clarks - just the sympathy really helped actually).

I hardly went out with DD1 but found I had to get out of the house every morning with the two of them, somehow made it easier to handle... toddler groups, playgroups, NCT coffee mornings at people's houses, library, anything....

trudy you never know even if she's not crawling she may still walk by then, 9 mnths is not really late for crawling or anything

i agree about getting out the house, makes things so much easier. where your moving to in uk look and see if they have surestart children's centre because they can be soo helpful and also u will get info there about other things you can do with children in the area

Tv didn't help us as DS1 was too young to be interested!

Accepting help? Whenever I was out with friends DS2 was always passed round for a cuddle so I could either play with DS1 or have a break - even something as small as that made such a difference.

In terms of sibling rivalry, DS1 never remembers being an only so it's just not an issue. They still fight of course but it's not cos of jealousy - it's normally sharing toys!

I've got 3.5years between my 2 so no advice, just wanted to add that DD1 didn't crawl till nearly 10m but was walking at 11m, so I wouldn't assume anything about that yet.

15 m between my first two...

Sibling rivalry not an issue (until they hit about 7 and 8 yrs!)
I used a travel cot alot. DD1 slept in it during the day, and when she was awake, dd1 was in it in her bouncy chair - it meant I could safely leave the room for long enough to make a drink/go to the toilet without dd2 being cuddled/squashed.
I also went out every day. DD2 cried almost all of her waking hours and it was easier to deal with out of the house.
Accepting help for me meant having dd2 passed around random mums at toddler group while dd1 got my time. And having family stay when dd2 was newborn as I'd had a section and dd1 was not walking so still needed alot of lifting.
I used a sling in the house as dd2 didn't do being away from me.

The first year was hard, but when dd1 was two and lots of my friends were having their second, I felt like I was having a much easier time, as we aere already past the tiny baby stage.
Congratulations.

Of the 5 Mums I know who've done this they ALL got PND and 3 split from their partners (so far).

Sorry for being so negative but that's what I've seen and I dont even have much in the way of solutions.

If you can finance it, get professional help eg maternity nurse, childminder for older one, cleaner to take care of the house while you concentrate on childcare. If your partner can reduce hours/take extended time off work, then go for it. I think a reason these friends hve found it so hard was because of unsupportive partners who didn't do 50 % childcare and housework.

Thanks again for all your advice and help and for explaining about accepting help.

I suppose it might be a bit difficult for me to go out and see friends since I won't have a social network to start with when we're moving. But the surestart centre seems a good point to start - I just checked out their website - I will just have to pluck up the courage to go.

I'm feeling a bit worried and down again tonight, especially with knowing that I will have to start from scratch to find friends and a support network but I think having children might actually make that easier.

Like I said, I have the most wonderful and supportive partner, so have absolutely no worries in that respect and that is probably worth its weight in gold.

Thanks again.

Just wanted to add, no PND here, and no split from partner, (They are 10 and 11 now and we also have a 5 yr old).
DP was not hugely helpful to be honest, and I have no family close by, but we stuck through the hard times.

Surestart centre is a good place to start. I also found church based mother and toddler groups a lifesaver, Not expensive, and no waiting list. I didn't know people locally before I had children, but am still close to friends I met when the girls were small.
I also used the local library alot. They did storytime and other activities and always made me welcome even with crying girl.