How can I get to like my DD again?

[PassTheTwiglets]

DD (8) drives me mad. She isn't a unkind or naughty or anything like that but she is just SO annoying and difficult to to be with. She never stops talking (almost literally, way worse than any other 'talkers' I've met), she fusses over everything, she has no patience at all with her 3yo brother and can be quite mean to him, she argues with us constantly, I have no authority over her, she constantly interrupts... I could go on. It's funny, when I type it out it doesn't sound that bad but honestly, she is a nightmare to be with. She's far worse than any other children I know. It's not just me who struggles with her either - DH and my parents find her very hard work too and my mum really worries about what we're going to do with her. She has me in tears several times a week and my patience is shot to pieces (though part of that is her brother's fault as he's very hard work too!) We have a big arguement at least once a week and we both end up in tears and we hug and try to come up with a way to make it better and we both make promises and things start to look up - but then it all starts all over again a few days later.

I don't spend a lot of time with her because of this and I wonder if this may be part of the problem? If she had more of my attention I wonder if she would calm down a bit, or is this just who she is at this age? She wasn't always like this. Also, I am a highly-strung person too (very short fuse, shout a lot etc.) so maybe I've just taught her my behaviour

She always wants to play on her DS/Gamecube/the PC and, because we find her so hard to be with, we let her . I know this is very wrong. Frankly, I dread the idea of spending time with her and I hate that I feel like this. Does anybody else feel like this about their child or am I just a horrid mummy? :( And what do you do with your child if you don't actually want to do things with them?! We used to be friends - how can I get our relationship back? I joke that at least we will get a 2-person discount on therapy but I fear that we are actually heading that way

Can I give you an example? The other day my mum said she'd take DD & DS to the park. There was a 10 minute argument between her and my mum about why she couldn't take her scooter (Mum said she wouldn't be able to carry it and DD wouldn't take no for an answer). She ran up to her bedroom, shouting and stomping and eventually came down and they headed off to the park. At the park, DD was apparently mean to DS most of the time and then they went to get an ice-cream. DS worships his big sister and when he said "I want the same as DD" DD got really cross and said "oh he ALWAYS has to copy me, it's so annoying!!" Mum tried to calmly explain that it didn't matter and that as long as DD got what ice-cream she wanted, it was irrelevant what ice-cream her brother had. They had a big argument about that so mum said "right - you're not having an ice-cream at all then". All hell broke loose at that and DD sulked for at least 2 hours (that's not normal, is it?) She then shouted a load of offensive nonsense at my mum "YOU ARE A LIAR! YOU SAID YOU WOULD TAKE ME TO BOTH PARKS" (we have 2 right next to each other) "BUT YOU'VE ONLY TAKEN ME TO ONE!!!" and stomped and shouted her way home. This is perfectly usual behaviour for DD.

I'm half-wondering if she may be about to start her periods, actually - can periods start before any physical signs of puberty?

Your scenario sounds exactly like one of my twins - also 8. She is stroppy, demanding, talks alot (mostly nonsense), 'mithers' me constantly and fusses over everything too e.g. what shoes she's going to wear, what time we are doing something (even mundane things like go and get dressed at the weekend), what colour cup she is having and yes she does shout and stamp around if things dont go the way she thinks they should.

I do find her very hard work but find on a 1-1 she is absolutely fine. Is this the same with your DD? I have 4, and she particularly argues with my younger son and daughter so I definitely find that she is a pleasure to be with when its just her.........although the constant chattering is still there

I dont really have any advice but am imterested in what others say.

oh and I also get called a liar and evil all the time.

I think this is a situation where "fake it till you make it" is really the only answer.

She needs more of your attention, not less, but you already know that. I also think more 1 on 1 with you would help. Five years is a big age gap (not a criticism, DS will be 4.5 when this baby girl is born - eek) and she probably finds DS incredibly annoying, which is not his fault either.

Kate, yes 1-1 she is much better - though I still can't say that I enjoy her company that much. My mum finds her lovely with 1-1 though.

Georgimama, that's an interesting thought - maybe she was annoyed by him generally (which I know she is) and that it wasn't really about the ice-cream at all! Btw, 4.5 years is exactly our age gap and it's much easier when the baby is little!

Fake it till you make it - fake that I am enjoying being with her, you mean?

Yep. Pretend you like her, pretend you are having fun together, and you will actually start to. That's the theory. It worked for me with DS. I noticed a huge improvement both in his behaviour and my reactions to it.

Oh that's very interesting, Georgi - and very encouraging that it worked for you! I will give that a try, thank you. We are in a bit of a vicious cirlce, really - she annoys me, I lose my patience which makes me extra-senseitive to the annoyances, so she annoys me even more...

Blimey, you have exactly described my DD (also 8) and my reactions to her! I also have a very short fuse and find myself shouting at her a lot, then feel absolutely horrible afterwards. When she's in a good mood, she can be the most delightful, funny company. But she is also extremely, impossibly argumentative, challenges everything, goes on and on and on and ON!! about things she wants, and has foul temper when she doesn't get her way.

I feel bad that I so often lose my temper or get snappy with her so I really try to emphasize the good stuff. If she's behaving well, I tell her so, and point out what lovely company she is/how polite she's being/how much I'm enjoying our conversation etc. I can see her look pleased, so I think that helps to counter the times we end up shouting at each other. If you really feel that you're not enjoying her at all, it'll probably be difficult to find a chink of sunshine where you can say "I'm really enjoying doing this with you..." or "what a nice tone of voice you're using; I really feel like helping you/chatting to you when you talk to me like that...". But hopefully if you keep looking, you can find those moments and build on them, and find more things to praise. I like the 'fake it til you make it' advice too.

Oh, this is my 8yo DD as well...

I also have an 8mo baby and the age gap, whilst very good in some ways, means that she has been used to having undivided attention for a looooong time.

I try to 'fake it' as much as I can but tbh there are too many days where I feel too ground down to even muster fake enthusiasm though when I do it works very well and very quickly.

Sounds like my 9 yr old too. 'Everything' is challenged, and she is quite mouthy. And she seems grateful for NOTHING. I lose my patience with her too and sometimes find her a right pita. But I love her to bits and we have plenty of good times too. Especially if we have 1-1 time.
What worked for us was to identify meaningful consequences. i.e. ones that would entice her to correct her behavior. At moment, our main one is to not allow her on the computer (she loves moshi monster). Or remove treats. And we do follow through. So she has learned that we do mean it.

When she starts misbehaving or arguing at a serious enough level to warrant correction, we remind her that if she continues on misbehaving that she will not be allowed on computer that evening, etc.. Most of the time, we get back a very ungracious "all right soooo', and she'll correct her behavior, but may sulk for a while. If the misbehaving or arguing is not that serious we ignore it.

I think its a bit mean that your mum refused her an ice cream after promising her one...

I think its normal behaviour for the older sibling to take umbrage at being copied, my ds has def. done this over similar things with his younger cousin : "stop wanting the same as me..." ect. But when dn wants something different he does not like that either

My ds could easily have had a sulk for 2 hours over that!

DD1 is 9 and exactly like this. Stroppy, bossy, picky, argumentative, over anything at all. Today it was finishing off tidying her bedroom floor ("you have until bedtime, you will not go out until it's done, whatever is left on the floor is going to charity") She came down five times saying she'd done when she hadn't, and every time I repeated the same thing and she stomped back upstairs screeching and huffing. She is a constant arrogant high-and-mighty bossy boots with 4yo DD2! To the point that I don't let them play together for very long.
On Friday she came alone with me to a local pub where I was helping with a charity fun day. She was a pleasure all day. Not a minute of trouble. She even manned a stall. I KNOW she needs and wants more 1:1 time but when she spends so much time undermining me, being rude and being horrible to DD2 I find it hard to get the ball rolling.

I think it could be junior school aged children in general that are like this, My DS aged 7 is heading in the same way as all of yours. And getting worse by the day. He starts junior school in sept.

I think the best way is to try and fake it like others have said. And i know its hard but try not to over think it. makes the situation seem worse than it is.

Ive always dreaded my children being at junior school, never liked children this age much, i cant seem to identify with them much. much prefer babies, infants and teenagers. Teenagers i identify with the most.

So agree with the attention and faking it thing. Have found I couldn't bear to be with dd and was avoiding her subtly ( and not so subtly!). Had to make myself spend time with her and cuddle etc because it wasn't what I wanted to do. Something told me that it would help and it has. I feel closer to her. Part of the prob is she's a lot like me! It takes time but two years ago things were terrible and now they're fine. I am on here to post about how early mornings drive me mad so all not roses all the time....

Thanks for your repsonses, everyone - I'm very glad to know that I'm not alone! Lookandlearn, that's great that your relationship with your DD has improved so much! I am definitely an avoider - I spend way too much time on the PC. Lots of people saying 'fake it' - I am definitely going to try that, thank you so much.

rosie, she wasn't promised an ice-cream, they just walked past the shop and DD asked if she could have one. I would certainly have refused to buy her one after she behaved the way she did though. It was a lot more than the summary I posted above, she was arguing and arguing and being really rude to my mum and shouting at her - no way would I have bought her an ice-cream after that!

Thanks so much, everybody! We are having a family day today (oh God) so will see how that goes.

I had a dreadful relationship with my DD at this age. I did not like her and if I am honest, i did not love her either :(

After much soulsearching, and this book and some help from CAMHS, we embarked on a positivity exercise, with plenty of love and cuddles and positivity. Fake it fake it fake it.

The change was gradual and over time, our relationship improved to the extend that I now adore her and cannot believe there was ever a time that I didnt.

It did take effort on my part though to look at my own parenting approach and accept that I was carrying on a legacy of negativity and criticism, and make a big effort to change it.

Lookandlearn - I laughted at 'Part of the prob is she's a lot like me!' That is part of the problem for me too! Nothing so annoying as seeing your own annoying stuff turn up in your kids. I think I was very like DD1 when I was young.

I've suddenly noticed my dd (9 this summer) getting a bit whiffy, definitely needing antiperspirant now, so I'm sure pre-puberty hormones are kicking in (gawd). It has come as a bit of a shock - she's a complete beanpole still, but also skin and hair need more attention now. It makes me think some of her 'stuff' is hormonal. I'm going to look at that book mentioned though. I need to work out which battles are worth fighting, as I have a constant feeling of being undermined for the sake of it and it does lead to a vicious circle where I want to come down on her like a ton of bricks about everything just because of the way she talks to me.

Does anyone know of any 'natural' stuff you can use to help out e.g. essential oils or anything to calm her mood. I'm already doing all the vitamins and omegas, and trying to keep her diet reasonable.

Try Bach rescue remedy or get her to enjoy camomile tea?

Hatti, your experience is very encouraging!! How does one get help from CAMHS, do you have to go through your GP?

"She's a lot like me" - oh heavens, me too!!! In fact this morning I said to her "why are you always so angry?" and DH looked at me knowingly

yes, we went through CAMHS via GP. This was after regular tantrums lasting hours and violence towards brothers.

Thanks, Dwayne - I've just ordered that book as I've heard so many good things about it.

I would definitely second those who have said fake till you make it and try to find time for more 1 to 1. My DD1 is only 6 but sounds much like your DD and I was having a lot of trouble with her (as was DH), I was in a pretty bad place to be honest (think I had PND after DC3 at the time which didn't help). We decided something had to give and started a completely new strategy with her. To start with we decided that all criticism and arguing had to stop - we simply would not engage in that and bit our tongues so as not to argue or bicker or get cross with her, tried to go with the big hug and a kiss and sympathy when she got stroppy and silly over stuff instead of getting cross, I tried to make the effort to arrange to take her out to tea (or ribena and a biscuit in the park) on her own for just half an hour after school once a week. These small things made an unbelievable difference in an amazingly short time. It was so hard to start with (and of course I lapsed and lost my temper on many occasions along the way) but got easier and easier.

She is still a strong willed, opinionated, highly strung, emotional girl who never stops talking but somehow everything seems to have fallen back into place and I now see all the good sides to her too (there are many) and love them so much and the knock on effect is that the 'difficult' stuff is easier for me to deal with as I feel it is more balanced by all the good and she is so much happier that she is in any event less 'difficult'.

Nelly, what a lovely story. I've heard somebody before suggest stopping all criticism - it does sound a very sensible idea (albeit a very difficult one!) It's so great to read that there are people who have successfully got through this!

I sound quite similar to you - have just come off of ADs after being on them for 2 years (and that is definitely making me lose my temper more) so I haven' t been in the best of places either. I'm so glad that you have worked things out with your DD!