4 year old still wetting herself

[webmum]

ok, lets' start from the begininnig, and sorry if its a bit long

dd1 has been a nightmare to pottytrain. I left it late as I didn't think she was ready but at some point I realised she was ready, physically, but not menatlly, we gave it a go, it worked for 2 weeks, she then had to go back to nursery (which she haad been atteding fopr 2 years and where she knew everyone) and refused to wear knickers there, the result was that eventually she was abck in nappies all the time.
I really did not want to force her so I left her for a few more months but she was now approaching 4 and soon starting school so I couldn't wait as long as she wanted.

One day, just before going on holiday I asked if she would stay without nappy on holidaya nd I'd buy her a gift. She said yes immediatelya nd it worked, but on our return again she wanted nappies for nursery. This time I didn't give in (maybe it was a mistake...)as I had visions of dd1 on her first day at school still in nappies (it was only 6 months away..).

Anyway, we had tantrums for a couple of mornings and that nothing more. She hardly had any accidents and she was fine. We went on a 6hour plane trip, we went for day trips to London and she was never a problem. Then slowly (and I really can't pinpoint a time when all of this started but it might have been during the summer), she started having more and more accidents, at times straight after I'd ask her if she needed the toilet.

Now she's at school and she constantly wets herself, she's even had a pooh on her knickers twice. When we first took the nappies off she didn't have these many accidents...to make the problem worse she refuses to go whenever we ask her (before going out for example), only to wet herself minutes later.
We're doing a star chart for a few things at the moment and the staying dry is the one that she never gets. She doesn't even seem to care, she's not embarassed by it, or she doesn't look like she is.

I thought it was the thought of going to big school as it more or less started when we started talking about her going to school, I think she's been looking forward to it and secretly dreading it at the same time (without admitting to it).

She also had a UTI as a baby, which was the result of a rhenal reflux and she has been under medication until recently when it was confirmed that that reflux has gone. So she shouldn't have problems on that front. But I'm worrying that all this wee-holding and staying hours with wet pants will cause her more infections, and wondering whether she might actually have bladder control problems?

I forgot to mention, I've had another baby last year, and lots of people think it to be the root of the problem, but I honestly don't think so, she absolutely adores her baby sister and never showed the slightest sign of jealousy.

Any help/ideas, similar situations extremely welcomed, I am going to mention this to the HV next week and hope to get some advice froom her too.

You might also try speaking to the school nurse. Ours was very helpful for my dd wrt nighttime wetting. GL

I spoke with her teachers (not sure they have a school nurse, its v. small school), but couldn't give me much advice, but they did say that she seemed happy and settled at school.

Is there any chance that she has a UTI or other infection that might be causing this?

I thought about it WWB, but she doesn't ahve any symptoms at all, she sometimes says something about it hurting, but I can never get anything out of her which is more specific. Other than that, she seems quite well, also this has been going on for a few months now, an infection would have caused a high temp by now, surely?

In our area, the school nurse is employed by the health authority and looks after a number of schools, not just dd's. Here is a bit of an explanation. We can leave a message/note for her in the school office and she will get in touch when she is next at the school.

webmum, I do think this is one for the healthcare pros to check out, although if it is physical why the soiled pants as well?

BTW, my nearly 4 yo ds still wets himself a lot and soils his pants occasionally too. He doesn't seem to care about it. I don't think it's physical, I think the main reason is that he just doesn't want to stop what he's doing to go to the loo. Just thought you might like to know your dd isn't the only one!

thanks gingernut,

thats right about the solids, thats why I havent rushed to the gp yet!!

its not so much the accidents that bug me, as her total refusal to go if we remind her, that really makes me see red

Webmum, my daughter (4) also gets recurrent UTIs but as she gets older, does not seem to get the fever that used to go with it. Don't want to alarm you, but think it would be a good idea given her previous history to get her urine tested for infection. Even if it is clear, I would ask your GP for a referral to a paediatric urologist. I don't think this is the type of issue that a health nurse or GP really has much expertise in.

webmum, my ds is like that too. If I ask him if he needs to go, he always says no, but then sometimes he rushes to the loo straight afterwards, and other times I find he is wet despite denials. So I have made up some `rules' e.g. everyone goes to loo and washes hands just before a meal, after a meal (when he often needs to wee and poo) and before going out. I usually just don't give him the option. Often though I make it a game by saying I need the loo too, and that I'm going to get there first. That gets him racing off to the loo straight away (he is very competitive!). He is gradually improving but at the moment I do wonder if he is ever going to get the hang of it completely. Hopefully he will though! Don't know what will happen when he starts school but luckily for me he probably won't go till the term after he is 5, so not for over a year yet.

well we're getting her urine tested as soon as I manage to get her to do in a potty rather than her knickers, at the moment things are getting worse everyday, today she has wet ehrself at least four times and twice soiled her knickers....not too sure about the urine infection though, it doesn't explain the soiling, but will get it done just to eliminate one worry, at least.
I am very worried though, starting to think this is all psychological and can't see an easy way out...have now adopted cool approach. Trying hard to stay calm even if she's wet herself seconds after swearing she did not need to go and just calmly help her to get changed, at least we don't get in a row....

am very depressed tonight

webmum, poor you .

If it's any consolation at all, my brother used to have little accidents up until the age of about 6; we never really knew why though suspect it was a reaction to school, which he didn't enjoy. My mum was tearing her hair out, but it stopped over some school holidays (I forget which) and never came back again.

Hope you get it sorted soon.

thanks wessex girl, I managed to get her urine sample this moring, so now we'll wait for results and see how it goes...

Are you sure your child is not constipated, somethimes they dont appear so, but can still be, and it can cause urinary problems, both itu's and also if the bowel is full it can cause the peeing to be irregular and not a full pee come out hence the utis. Imagine if a bowel is full of hard poo, it can become stuck, it stretches the bowel which then hangs over the bladder or can press on it causing problems. This also would explain the soiling. Google encopresis. hopefully this will not be what your child has, but if it is, I warn you it takes a very long time to get it right.

rosebudz, I did some research on the internet after posting here and I found something similar to what you describe, i'd be very surprised though, as she never seemed constipated, anyway I'm keeping that in mind when I see the GP, for the time being I'm waiting for the urine test results and we've actually had 2 almost accidentfree days (!!) (ie no more than a trickle in her pants),so I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

Thanks for the posts

Hello
I'm new on mumsweb, hi, I could really do with some advise on what to do about my childs wetting problems.
My daughter was 4 a couple of mths ago. She was potty trained just before her third birthday, but was still not dry at night. We kept up with night time nappies untill about 6 mths ago. My husband wanted to try her without nappies even though she wasn't dry. I gave in thinking she might learn to wake up to go to the toilet. We lift her once or twice every night before we go to bed but lately we've been too late. We have tried to put her back in nappies but she absolutely refuses to wear them. There have been very good periods with almost no accidents and she's always rewarded one way or the other.
We are supernanny fans so we've been trying all the things she's suggested.
I have been to the GP with her, although it's some time ago now, but there was no infection, was told to cut down on acidy drinks and introduce cranberry juice and water into her diet, which is all very well but she can't stand cranberry juice. I received no advice on how to solve the problem or where to go to get help.

I forgot to mention earlier that my lovely little girl also has accidents during the day. Some days she has none but other times it is quite bad. My daughter is a very social child, so as far as I'm aware she doesn't get nervous or scared in any situation she might come across.

It has never bothered her being wet at any point in her life. I have regurlarly run out of things for her to wear as I can't keep up with the washing.
As I mentioned before we've tried everything we can think of, and I would welcome any advise on this matter.
Someone once said to me not to ask my child if she wants the toilet too often, as it confuses her. Let her decide herself when she needs the toilet. To let her bladder get full before taking her to the toilet, which is not always easy because of obvious reasons.
She will be starting school soon and it would be nice if this was resolved before that time. Please help.

betterlate etc

I can't give out any advice I'm afraid....we had dd1's results and she does have an infection, and she's on antibiotics now...
had a chat with her explaining why she needs to go more often, and she promised she would go when asked...but guess what? Obviously she doesn't...had major tantrum today as I got really angry woth her for not keeping her promise, she did not like me banning sweets for breaking her promises.

Kept asking why doesn't she at least try, she keeps saying I don't want to. Is it ebcause its painful, no coems the reply.

Its like talking to a wall. I just don't understnd, I'm worried about all these infections, and I'm absolutely fed up with fightinh with her all the time for everything....not a good day

Hi webmum and betterlatethannever. I was just scanning through looking for potty training advise when I came across this thread. My dd1 had something very similar. She was trained at 2 but regressed 3 months later after her sister was born. We thought this was natural but it continued for a while and then it transpired that she had a UTI. Still the wetting continued, driving us up the wall. It felt like I couldn't take her anywhere - I was so embarrassed by the patch on her jeans that was always there.

Anyway, we contacted ERIC who help with day and nighttime incontinence. They were amazing - even though I generally just cried down the phone. It was just could to talk to someone who didn't dismiss the problem. I bought brightbots pants from the nappylady - not as bulky as some training pants, but enough to catch a dribble. These saved my sanity for nursery.

The biggest breakthrough came however when we saw a paediatrician who made me realise that I felt she was punishing me by doing this. When I stepped back I realised that whenever she wet herself the reaction I gave was critical. Sometimes I was calm but other times I was a banshee.

I can honestly sat that within a week or 2 of consistent nonchalance she was dry. I felt so stupid because the process had taken almost 2 years and the problem was down to me. She had also pooed a couple of times which really freaked me out. The third time I hid my revulsion and that was it for that trial.

Sorry this post is so long, but rest assured it doesn't last forever, and now I look back to a year ago and I can't believe how stressed we were.
It certainly changed things for dd2, who is still in nappies at 2.6 despite being perfectly capable of using the toilet!

Oh - and she was dry at night at 4.6 - as reception girls don't wear nappies to bed. After all her history I was ready for her wetting until comp!

Wow - some of these posts could have been mine. I've been soooooooo stressed and worried over dd's waterworks issues recently. She's had a rough year in that dept beginning with threadworms early in the year, then over the summer she had a UTI followed by another one in October. She is constantly sore/inflamed, yet urine tested last week and was clear. We've been referred to a paed in Dec who will hopefully get us to the bottom (no pun intended) of the problem. The infections were real, but her symptoms now may well be psychosematic. There have been a few traumas recently affecting all our lives. The stress of worrying about her though was getting me down. I went to the GP myself last week and she was very helpful. The main thing she said which has reassured me for now is that I need to deal with the practical problems of dd's wetting (day and night - previously dry for both), and that she is in the process of being investigated and sorted. If they find no physical cause, then they'll help us find out the psychological cause. I have taken this advice and for now things seem easier to cope with whie we await further investigation.

Shes 5.5 btw.

mimiasotich

your post has been so useful, thank you so much!!

Since my last post I have definitely stopped asking her if she needs to go (ok I still do it occasionally when I see her jumping up and down with her hand between her legs, but I don't get angry anymore at her refusals), and I keep a straight face whenever she wets herself, I just hand out a clean pair of knickers and that's the end of it. She's been treated for the infection but I'd like to have her urine checked just to make sure..

She still wets herself, though not as much as before, usually its justa trickle and I only notice when she changes into her pjs at night.

She still weras a nappy at night but I'm not going to push that one for sure, she can have it until she gets married as far asI'm concerned!!

I am hoping the laid back approach will yield results, you have just confirmed that it does work, so I'll keep thinking of your example!!

Thank you so much!

Hi - I'm really glad I could help. I decided to try dd2 in pants this weekend, which has been a little stressful. I think all the old anxieties came back, transferred from one dd to the other. I need to take my own advice and RELAX!!

hi betterlate

My four year has been the same she has had stomach pains and everything withit, its like she holds on and holds on till she cant hold no more, its mainly at night. She is now being seen by ped's at hospital, she has had a scan on kidneys etc as she has had several uti, go to go back monday, so fingers crossed lets hope something is done.

reviving this old thread as we are still having problems....

dd is now 5.5 and in 1, I have tried the matter-of-fact approach (which is what we've been doing for the past year or so) and there's been no change, actually a small change has happened, as dd doesn't wet herself completel as last year, but onl damps her knickers, I can usuall smell it before I can see it. Still the problem is there, actually we now have another as she has recentl decided she was too old for night nappies and has taken themm off, but we have accidents between 1-3 times a night, I'm going insane insane with all the washing/changing, but i tr not to let it show (though it probabl does sometimes).

We also have the problem of her being 'sore' all the time, and having to use napp cream.

In the meantime, we have moved out of the UK and there doesn't seem to be much help here in Italy. Her pead said she was too young fro medication, but has not suggested any alternatives.....

I am reallyy hoping someone is in the same situation, or has been and has some advice.

thanks

bump

No advice but I do have a 4 yo dd who keeps wetting. Getting urine tested, reminding her constantly to go...I will be potty training her little brother in the early summer and hope that will help her if we haven't got it solved by then...