4 year old still wetting herself

[webmum]

ok, lets' start from the begininnig, and sorry if its a bit long

dd1 has been a nightmare to pottytrain. I left it late as I didn't think she was ready but at some point I realised she was ready, physically, but not menatlly, we gave it a go, it worked for 2 weeks, she then had to go back to nursery (which she haad been atteding fopr 2 years and where she knew everyone) and refused to wear knickers there, the result was that eventually she was abck in nappies all the time.
I really did not want to force her so I left her for a few more months but she was now approaching 4 and soon starting school so I couldn't wait as long as she wanted.

One day, just before going on holiday I asked if she would stay without nappy on holidaya nd I'd buy her a gift. She said yes immediatelya nd it worked, but on our return again she wanted nappies for nursery. This time I didn't give in (maybe it was a mistake...)as I had visions of dd1 on her first day at school still in nappies (it was only 6 months away..).

Anyway, we had tantrums for a couple of mornings and that nothing more. She hardly had any accidents and she was fine. We went on a 6hour plane trip, we went for day trips to London and she was never a problem. Then slowly (and I really can't pinpoint a time when all of this started but it might have been during the summer), she started having more and more accidents, at times straight after I'd ask her if she needed the toilet.

Now she's at school and she constantly wets herself, she's even had a pooh on her knickers twice. When we first took the nappies off she didn't have these many accidents...to make the problem worse she refuses to go whenever we ask her (before going out for example), only to wet herself minutes later.
We're doing a star chart for a few things at the moment and the staying dry is the one that she never gets. She doesn't even seem to care, she's not embarassed by it, or she doesn't look like she is.

I thought it was the thought of going to big school as it more or less started when we started talking about her going to school, I think she's been looking forward to it and secretly dreading it at the same time (without admitting to it).

She also had a UTI as a baby, which was the result of a rhenal reflux and she has been under medication until recently when it was confirmed that that reflux has gone. So she shouldn't have problems on that front. But I'm worrying that all this wee-holding and staying hours with wet pants will cause her more infections, and wondering whether she might actually have bladder control problems?

I forgot to mention, I've had another baby last year, and lots of people think it to be the root of the problem, but I honestly don't think so, she absolutely adores her baby sister and never showed the slightest sign of jealousy.

Any help/ideas, similar situations extremely welcomed, I am going to mention this to the HV next week and hope to get some advice froom her too.

Just signed up to mumsnet to start a thread and find one on the exact subject I'm stressing about. Can't offer any advice, webmum, but have a similar problem in that my dd aged 4.5 was a nightmare to potty train. She got the idea but point blank refused to go even when it was obvious she was desperate. Eventually, after six months or more of continuous accidents and lots of crying on my part (I had another dd just as dd1 wanted to get out of nappies) she was more or less dry. We only had occasional accidents during the day, tho she is still in nappies at night. Just recently she's started refusing to go the loo again and in the last few days has been having major accidents, wee and poo, much more regularly. I admit to having been really angry sometimes, I can't stand the mess on sofas, carpets etc. A star chart helped for a couple of days but the effect seems to have worn off - after getting a gold star at teatime yesterday for not having accidents all day she then pooed in her pants. Reading this long thread makes me think I should take her to the GP and get a urine test. Also, I must stay calm!! What other advice is out there?

Getting cross doesn't help with my dd. She does better when I'm reminding her, pop her on the toilet every so often, talk to her about how it's her body and only she knows when she needs to go. When I'm positive that she'll get the hang of it, that works better. At times I have felt overwhelmed as if she would never learn and she senses that I suppose.
I do think it must be linked to her little brother arriving around the time she started potty training. But that is two years ago now! My ds1 now 15 was a dream to potty train, he was dry night and day within two weeks and never looked back! I'm really hoping ds2 will be that straight forward!

Hi, just read through this thread - seems like so many of you have been through the same thing. My dd1 is 5.5 and still wetting her knickers constantly. I more often notice the smell rather than an overt 'accident', but today she really wet herself badly and didn't seem bothered by it - although she didn't tell me she had done it because she thought i might shout. so frustrated, i keep trying to explain she should go to toilet sooner but she doesn't seem to recognise the signs of needing to wee till its too late. she doesn't complain of soreness so don't think its physical, can the GP do anything for her? Appreciate any advice.

thread here discussing drinks and medication. dd was referred to paediatrician at 5 years old.

Hi there, also new. Just a bit of additional advice. My DD is now 6 and still has probs with wetting night and day. HV had reffered her to a enuresis clinic but they now only see them if the are over 7 so I guess its quite common at a younger age. GP no help done numerous urine tests but no UTIs. So I have started to take her to Chiropractor, I have been about 8 times and def improvement we have now started to keep a chart of "good" days. It is embarrasing with wet patches & smell but I found it became a battle of wills, and my DD is v strong willed, but hopefully now getting better. Oh something interesting is that the Chiro. said her system was quite overactive wich was interesting as behav. has improved also not as moody/argumentative, and HV had suggested an overactive bladder! Hope this might help, ERIC site is also brill.

My dd used to have accidents when younger, despite my laid back approach. Thye only really stopped when I made her go and chenge herself (rtaher than handing out clean clothes) and also put her soiled clothes in the washing machine, so she understood the whole process. Eventually she decided that going to the toilet took less time and the accidents gradually reduced..

Nighttime trainign has happened only in hte last 2 weeks. She refused to wear a nappy too and i was washing every night. I bought a 'hippychick' sheet to save money on bed mats etc but the best thing I did was to buy a bedwetting alarm like this . Despite her objections we used it rigidly (the idea is the alrm alerts the parents who wake the child fully to use the toilet)and aftr only a few weeks it has worked.

Hope you get it sorted soon

webmum - my dd had kidney surgery as a baby to sort out a congenital kidney defect. At age 7ish she was on the verge of being discharged from the clinic when I mentioned she still had lots of accidents. She was referred to urodynamics where they tested her bladder strength etc etc. She was found to have what was known as a neuropathic bladder, ie signals from the brain not connecting with the bladder.

To cut a long story short, she had an operation at 9 to insert a supra-pubic catheter (a permanent tube through her abdomen into her bladder) which was connected to a leg-bag during the day and a drainage bag on a stand at night. This procedure was done to "rest" her bladder and help it recover some function. When she was 11 it was removed.

Doctors don't normally get involved with kids' continence problems until they get to about 7 or 8 so you may be met with some resistance if you insist. But it may be worth asking for a private appointment to have her kidneys and bladder scanned and properly checked for any underlying problem.

dd is 15 now and apart from some stress incontinence is fully discharged from the hospital.

thanks blondehelen and princessD, have taken a look at ERIC really useful - an overactive bladder sounds just like my dd1, as she can't seem to contain hereslf when she needs to go.

Queeneagle thanks for our post

sorry if I haven' replied earlier, but I have been without connection for 3 weeks.
The last time we saw the pead (we're in Ital now so no GP, but a proper pead), he talked about urodynamics, then he decided thats he was still too young for that and any medication. She has now accepted to wear nappies at night (us our little secret), and things have improved enormously for me, at least. No more waking up twice a night and doing up to 3 washes a day! She was seen privately last year and a thourough scan of her kidneys carried out and everything was fine, they also checked that she emptied her bladder fully and that was ok too.

At the moment we're getting b trying to remind her to go(but she often refuses)and taking along lots of spare clothes anyy time we leave the house...

thanks for sharing our experience though, its good to know we're not alone, I don't know anyone with the same problemm and sometimes all you need is talk to someone who understands

thanks a lot