blazing rows with 11 yr old daughter

[jellybelly25]

I would like to know how people stop themselves losing their rag when faced with an attitudey child who refuses to take responsibility for her m istakes (e.g. taking homework to school and not handing it in - a minor example) and chooses instead to have a massive go at me for even being annoyed in the first place.

She really knows how to distract me and push my buttons and I do often end up screaming at her which is awful. I want to know how people keep their cool when dealing with these situations?!!

Practice in advance. Have a couple of stock phrases up your sleeve to trot out like 'this is not a conversation' or 'we will talk about this when you are calm'. Let her suffer from her mistakes and rub her nose in it.

It should finish in about five or six years.

Yeah she will turn pleasant again about aged 17

The more the tension gets raised the more attitude you will get and the more you will shout. It is a vicious circle.

I know how difficult it is I really do. But listen to yourself - she pushes my buttons. You are blaming her for your shouting like a tantruming child.

Would you scream at her like that if you were in a cafe? Or if her head teacher was in the room with you?

If not then you can control yourself. You are just choosing not to.

Decide what you want to do when you feel yourself getting angry and do it. It nay even help to sit with her and say ' I hate that we interact like this. How about next time we start to get angry we agree to go to different rooms for 15 mins. And when we come back to talk about it we will be polite about it.'

Also. Do you manage to have really nice times with her? When pre-teens get busy at school etc it can get to the point where our only time together is spent discussing jobs/homework/ behaviour etc. They still need time to giggle with us and cook and read or play or watch a DVD etc etc.

Thanks for suggestions - glad it's not just me!

Yeah we have loads of really nice times - I make sure that after dd2 is in bed we sit together and either read together or watch something a bit more grown up on tv. We go out and have cake together etc. She's generally very sunny and pretty cheerful but very passive and whilst not abnormal is noticeably worse than a lot of her friends for not doing basic stuff off her own back, eg cleaning teeth without being told, etc. We've both got a bit of a temper and I find it very frustrating when we are going over the same basic things "what day is it? look at your planner - what do you need to take today?" and she refuses to acknowledge that she has ever done anything that she needs to be pulled up on. Also, my initial reaction is not anger, but mild annoyance - the anger bit comes from her ignoring that she's done anything wrong and choosing to fight with me instead of fixing it - just saying 'damn! I'll hand it in today.' would do, but it doesn't even occur to her! So yeah, that's when I get cross about it instead of just annoyed.

I'm not blaming her wholly for my reaction, it's both of us clashing. She's not passive in the situation though - she knows how to wind me up and also needs to at least try not to do that! So I dont' think I'm unreasonable to say that I end up shouting because of her reaction am I? Of course I wouldn't shout at her in front of her teacher but likewise she wouldn't give me attitude in front of her teacher either, or laze around in her pajamas. It's always more personal at home isn't it?

We have had a number of calm and constructive chats where I point out that if I were to ignore these things and tell her it doesn't matter, I would be a bad mother, and that I only do it because I care and don't want her to lose out on opportunities later in life because she's too dozy to hand things in on time/arrive on time/pull her finger out a bit. It may not matter now but it's a life skill. She nods and says yes, but we still end up here periodically and it's a bit exhasuting, hence being on here.

Anyway, yeah when it's not a conversation anymore we should remove ourselves for a bit... That would probably help a lot.

Sure.
I am not pretending she is Pollyanna
and nor am I suggesting that I have never shouted at my children. We all have days when we are knackered. Or telling them something we have told them 20 times before. Or they are looking at you as if you are speaking a different language.

But the tone really is set by you (us) because however stroppy and annoying, they are the child and we are the ones in charge. The 'well it is just a bit more relaxed at home' thing is a wee bit of an excuse. The point remains no one can make you behave any particular way - or otherwise women really could make their partners hit them.

If you are happy that your behaviour is always reasonable then fine. I was just trying to tell you what change in thinking helped me change when I felt all ds and I were doing was arguing.

I've got one of those, only mine's 12 (nearly 13). Mine seems to have a gift for knowing exactly how to press every button I've got and winds me up so easily. I'm not shouty all the time honestly, I find out other 3 dc so much easier.

Best advice I've got is to ignore the little stuff. dd1 knows how much I hate it when she mutters comments as she leaves the room. I was literally biting my tongue last night not to call her on it.

I agree with ol Paggy. But it is is REALLY hard. Dd(12) wanted me to revise French with her last night for a test today, so we sat down together and I asked her questions, correcting wrong answers.

Her: Yes, that's what I said.
Me: Er, no you didn't. You said xyz. It's abc.
Her: No I didn't, I said abc.
Me: No you didn't. I am the one sitting here with the paper in front of me and listening. You said xyz.
Her: NO I DIDN'T, WHY ARE YOU SO HORRIBLE AND STRESSY? OH FINE GIVE IT TO ME I'LL DO IT ON MY OWN THEN.
Me: Fine.

She then waited for her father and did it with him, and he's RUBBISH at French.

I don't know what this illustrates except that I feel your pain. Oh, and don't engage, leave the room.

We should get a bunker built in when dcs hit pre-teen.
I have perfected 'right. Go away for 10 minutes because this is not going to end well. Or I will go away and you can stay here and cook dinner'

It only took me 17 years to get this bit sorted.
Now all the other stuf......

Smile about everything.

Today Dd went to school in one uniform and took two potential changes in a bag (tights and summer dress) so she could change if she felt the need.

I was about to point out the sheer absurdity, possibility of loss of said items, opinions of teachers etc, and then I saw her little anxious face and thought Oh, fuck it and waved her off.

That's another good coping strategy: The Oh, fuck it solution.

Oooh - a little anxious face. I think we do forget sometimes what stresses the young uns are facing too. My DD (11) is usually lovely but has attitude and quite often leaves the house in a morning in a grump after we have had words. I watch her at the bus stop from my bedroom window - laughing and joking with a bus friend and wonder where I am going wrong.

A friend of mine advised me, when DD was very young, to pick my battles. It was after a big tantrum about her wanting to wear something bizarre and my friend pointed out that it really didn't matter what she wore and it was not worth getting heated about. I am fairly ambivalent about a lot of things, but feel your pain with regards to not having the right stuff ready for the correct day at school etc.

Only 5 years of this to go then, before they become lovely again.

I absolutely refuse to argue. I will talk to her when she's speaking to me in the correct manner, but if she wants to shout and argue with me, she can just get up to her room until she can act civilly. Not saying I never shout, cos I do, but generally, this is how it works in my house.

Like HullyGully's reply. I tend to blow my top but actually it probably doesn't matter - am gonna try and remember that!!

Ah but HullyGully - if that was my dd she would expect me to get her change of two clothes ready, or wait like a lemon at the door, about to leave, while she goes to get it, then have a strop at me if I won't/tell her we are late and to hurry up, etc!!

I know you're all right though. I am going to make a concerted effort not to get so shouty and to leave if I'm blowing up. The thing that I think really bothers me is that I am having to nag so much more than I used to...

And I really do worry about the consequences of her just not doing anything, where she couldn't care less really...

Anyway from now on it's a new calm me!!

If she expects you to, you just laugh. And keep laughing. After all, why would you?

Another example! (This is so I don't vent at her!!) Last night:

"Goodnight dd1, love you"

"Goodnight mum, love you"

switch light off.

No more than two seconds pass...

"Mum. MUM! It's the mothers' day fayre tomorrow, if you go to the shop later can you get a gift for me to take in."

"No, it's too late. This is information I could have used earlier..."

"Oh. night night."

So this morning we come up with a plan, to take a necklace that someone gave us that we don't use. She wraps it, labels it, then LEAVES IT IN THE KITCHEN!!!! Then texts me to say she's left hte gift. I said well that was silly. No further response.

Do I take the gift up to the school when I fetch her later or leave it? I don't think there will be any major consequence of her not bringing it other than that her teacher will roll eyes at her and huff a bit.

Um, it does sound perfectly normal to me...

It's no skin off your nose to take it, so take it. If it was a huge prob and you couldn't take it, then don't - and stay calm about it, after all, it's not your fault.

Every week at the beginning, I go through both dcs school calendars, and then the house planner to see what's required, and I still miss stuff. And I forget stuff occasionally and so do they. Slife.

I think your expectations may possibly veer to the high side..

I have another idea (just full of them today).

Why not be on her side? ie at the beginning of the week sit down with her and between you list out every single thing you can think of that the week might involve (not in a grim teeth-clenched fashion), and if things get forgotten just shrug. You've both tried and she will feel supported and on the same side rather than always failing.

She's only 11.

This may sound harsh - but you mustnt let her push your buttons - she is the child and you are the adult. Everything goes wrong if you don;t remember that. And I speak from bitter, bitter experience. If your inner 11 year old takes over. it can only end badly!

(I have similar problems controlling my inner 10 year old and inner 15 year old!)

Oh, and take the necklace. It doesn't involve any extra effort on your part, and you wouldn't hesitate to do it for a friend, or your sister. She didn;t leave it behind on purpose.

The best piece of advice I ever had was when my ds was two and an older person said to me, Always remember which of you is the parent.

I say that to myself quite often..

You can guarantee that virtually every morning I get a phone call after DD has got on the school bus. "Muuuuuum, I've forgotten X, Y or Z. Can you bring it in for me please" Usually me or DH do the necessary.

Last night she wanted to go to Guides in a pair of tights that were full of holes. She has only just started wearing tights and seems to think it is acceptable, especially as she would be rolling around on a wooden floor with splinters. Had to put my foot down and say if you don't change them you aint going. But I remembered this thread and stayed calm whilst I said. Thanks all

I think that sometimes we get angry because we feel guilty. It is irrational but we want our dcs to be at school and out in the world without being the kid that hasn't got their money for the cake stall, or their gym kit. Plus on some level we worry that others will think we are crap parents. So we feel like we ought to rush to school with their missing/forgotten item. But we will look disorganised and a bit shit.
I always feel like they look at me a bit ' oh god it's her again' if I turn up with forgotten guitar or snack box.

So we resent being put in that position.

I know the worst I ever lost it with ds1 was when I drove him to school only to see everyone else on mufti. I just raged at him. He sat there saying ' it's ok . I will just wear my uniform' and I just felt like the worlds biggest shit.

of course I took him home to change. But I realised that I was so angry because I was trying so hard to keep on top of everything but just couldn't . Because we often can't. If I start to feel angry about stuff like that now I can remember that morning and don't go there.
I adopt the hully patented fuck it strategy.

Lol, inner 11 year old! I think I'm more of an inner 15 year old lol.

Hmm ok maybe I'm expecting a bit much then... I took the necklace up pretty much as soon as I wrote the post - felt like a right hard-faced cow sitting there doing my work knowing I could be up there in five min with it. Advice from other family members on previous occasions like this = tough love: if you take stuff for her she won't ever remember it herself, she needs to feel the consequences etc, but that approach doesn't work in her case (and it didn't work with me!).

We do discuss each evening what she needs tomorrow, but not each week... Perhaps that would help. I am generally on her side and I let a lot go - e.g. lost phone last week - I did not go mental at her because I know it's an accident and she felt so sad about it, and I really felt sorry for her.

It's when I feel that we've both tried and she's had loads of reminders and help, then she still just seems to not think and not CARE - (that's what I think really pisses me off), I despair a bit that I can't actually DO any more for her. But perhaps I can do more, in the pre-planning sense. And you're right, I guess if I have done all that I can do, then I'll be less inclined to get upset/angry about it. I guess it's the line between what I should be responsible for and what she should be responsible for that I find difficult...

It doesn't help that her teacher is a bit of a miserable person and only ever has negative things to say about dd1 being dizzy and forgetful, taking ages to get changed, etc. and I have stood up for her on a couple of occasions so perhaps that was getting to me as well. I actually said to her last week when she approached me to moan about dd1 - they had waited for her for TEN MINUTES after PE that day because she couldn't find her shoes, rolls eyes, etc etc - that there were worse things in her life that she could be than forgetful - she could be mean and unkind, for example, and she laughed it off ??! I felt like pointing out to her that perhaps if she wants to bitch about dd1 she would be better off doing it with someone other than HER MOTHER) I hadn't connected the two until now.... Perhaps that made my concerns over her forgetting stuff even bigger... And hence my frustration at her not caring even greater... Hmm.

Exit- that is so funny, on Saturday dd1 tried to leave the house in some footless tights and a top, with no bottoms ?? thinking of them like leggings. I said - I can see your bum. Please put some shorts or trousers on. She had the biggest tantrum about it!!

Pag- that's exactly it- it's the guilt - it's them missing out because we've forgotten non-uniform or whatever, and it's us looking like a div. The combination is lethal for mental health!! Fuck it might have to be the way forward.