Do you have 3, youngest 2 or over, can you help us decide....

[quickchat]

Yet another thread has been started by one of us mums with 2 who are struggling to decide on another. I have done quite a few myself.

One point I brought up within this thread was - I wonder what it's like when they are older?

We know what it's like having little ones with all the cute stuff they bring and make it so hard to let go of.

What we don't know what it's like having 3 older children at school.

I was sitting with DH having our morning coffee watching my nearly 4 yr old DS and 15 month old DD playing. DD toddling about in her babygrow and DS was on form with his funny little stories. It was lovely (it isn't always) and I feel torn about having another.

What was your morning like and what is a typical day with your older brood?

Do you enjoy them as much as you did, if you did, when they were smaller?

I know you'll no doubt not be able to imagine life without your third, but do you recommend 3?

Just would be nice to have a little view into life with a slightly older family as it isn't all babygrows and toothy grins for long!

Mine are 7,5 and 3, and I love having three! Mornings are admittedly a bit manic, but we are in a routine which helps. The older two are great at entertaining the younger one, and I'm finding it all sooo much easier as they get older and can do a bit more for themselves.

Yeah, they fight and squabble, but they are also really close. One of my favourite moments of the day is when the two older ones are about to get on the school bus and ds (3) demands his cuddle and kiss- they go into a lovely huddle that always makes me smile Go for it- three is fab, in a chaotic way

(although ask me again tomorrow and I'll probably give you a different answer!!)

When you say you have a routine, is that because the kids know what to do or you keep telling them each day?

Mine don't say bye or hello to each other.

I have 3, ages 6, 4.5 and 2 and it's great. Busy but great. The older two are at school and ds2 will be starting playschool next year sometime.

I don't regret having 3 and think I would always have regretted sticking with 2.

The older two start school at 9.20 and tbh we're rarely up before half 8. We're oddly efficient in the morning! Once they get home from school the afternoon is mostly homework and then we all eat dinner together. I shower them and generally the baby stays in while the older two take turns as he likes playing in there.

It gets bit frazzled in winter when they can't go out much and are at each others throats but in good weather they all play out from morning til night and all three play brillinatly together. The older two love their little brother and are very good with him and ds2 adores his big brother and sister.

our routine is usually,

'yes youve got to get up,no you cant just have an apple for breakfast,leave him alone,dont make faces behind my back,yes you do like shreddies,no you cant go to school dressed as superman,leave the tv and get dressed,well where did you put your trousers when you took them off yesterday,dont hit,i know he started it but dont join in,if you put your reading book back in your bag lastnight then youd know where it is now,get dressed please,no get dressed its nearly time to go,have you not found your trousers yet?,why didnt you remember to practise your spellings last night,what about your teeth-they need to be done twice a day not once a week,shoes!,no not wellingtons shoes,put your trousers on!!,shoes!coats!,NOW!,were going to be late,right im counting to 3-put your shoes on!,1..2..3.'

if you do it all differently to me,youll be fine!

cheesesarnie.... our 'routine' is similar but it works and the children don't seem overly bothered as they still run out the door in the morning laughing and giggling

cheesesarnie- this is my script and i only have 2 kids!

at Cheesesarnie! I recognise quite a lot of that!

I do do a fair bit of "eat your breakfast. Eat your breakfast. Eat your breakfast" (squawk- Polly wants a cracker), but they know to eat breakfast (eventually!), then they automatically go to brush their teeth, then get dressed (with a little help here and there)

I do a fair bit the night before, and often have breakfasts that can be eaten on the hoof, if necessary! There is often a bit of last minute faffing, but we have not missed the bus yet!

I have 3, ds aged almost 9 almost 7 and dd who has just turned 2. I also had my dd at 38 and definitely have less energy now than I did when my boys were two year olds.

That said, it has worked well for us. The older two are close - fight and love each other in equal quantities - and both adore their little sister. They aren't really at the age of wanting to do anything practical to help with her, but they do play with her, read her books and keep her beautifully entertained when they are home.

Dd is an absolute livewire, far more hard work than either of her brothers were, so my days are pretty much full of taking care of her at the moment. Some days it feels like I have only just dropped the boys at school and its time to collect them again!

My situation is slightly different, as my eldest son has Aspergers and co-ordination problems that mean he isn't able to organise himself as well as other 9 year olds. I have to do a lot more for him that most people would for a child of the same age and he probably accounts for most of my time outside of school hours, plus endless hospital appointments and meetings around his educational needs etc.

Even taking this into account, I would say, that yes, its busy and tiring, but not in a bad way. Mornings are fine, we have a routine that works for us and its rare for there to be any stress. Afternoons are the same, we have a routine, which is not set in stone exactly but pretty much follows the same pattern every day.

The only time it was stressful was when dd was tiny and both boys needed help with homework but I needed to bf dd. That was very shortlived though and we worked around it by reorganising their time so that they read to me first before doing their written homework.

As for whether we still enjoy them as much as we did when they were younger, the answer has to be definitely yes. Obviously we have the best of both worlds with a cutie two year old at home as well as older dcs, but they all bring us so much joy albeit in different ways.

I would say personally, having a third child has been a really positive experience for us, despite it happening at what turned out to be one of the most difficult times of our family's life so far. Dd has never brought anything but happiness to our household.

You asked for an example of a typical day - bearing in mind our ds1 needs more help than the average 9 year old, this is what our day looks like:

7.00 dh and I get up, he has a shower while I make the packed lunches.

7.20 One of us wakes ds2 and dd and gives them a few minutes to wake up properly (ds1 is always awake and reading before 6.00 am). I shower while dh makes everyone's breakfast.

7.30ish-8.00ish Eat breakfasts, supervise washes baths or showers depending on the day and child

8.00 We lay out ds1's uniform for him and he and ds2 get dressed. Either dh or myself dresses dd. (Ds1 needs lots of reminders and supervision while he gets dressed so we one of us has to stay with him to do that.)

From when they are dressed until 8.30 they have free time to do whatever they like - usually reading for ds1 and colouring or lego for ds2, then ... (This is when we have chance to get dressed and if we are lucky have a quiet cup of coffee.)

8.30 Go through contents of ds1's bag and read school diary with him to remind him of anything he needs to do that (handing in letters, taking in or bringing home homework etc).

8.35ish Shoes and coats on, dd into pushchair and off for the school run.

After school:

3.10 Ds2 comes out in the far playground, so we wait for him then walk round to pick up ds1 from the juniors whilst chatting about his day.

3.15 ds1 comes out. We go through the list of things he had to remember that day and check if he has given everything in and/or brought everything home that he should. I usually have to speak to his teacher and he usually has to go back into school 'at least' twice to fetch things he's forgotten.

3.40 Arrive home, boys go straight up and change out of their uniforms while I prepare a drink and snack for them.

3.50 Boys and dd have a snack and we chat about their days, then dd usually draws or does playdough while the boys do their homework with me.

I sit in the middle of the table with them at each end, they do spellings at the same time with me calling them out. Ds1 has fine-motor handwriting practise to do at the same time, so I have to supervise that as well. Then its any bigger pieces of literacy or numeracy, which we've scheduled so they do them on different days or at most 1 piece each on the same day.

Then ds1 has typing practise on the pc (this is to do with his fine-motor issues) while ds2 reads to me.

Finally we go through their bags for any letters or notes and ds1 and I write out all the next day's reminders in his school diary and make sure he has everything he needs in his bag ready for the morning.

from 4.30-5.00ish, depending on how much homework there was - the boys can go off and do what they like while I cook the tea

6.00-6.15 Dh arrives home, we eat together, then one of us washes up while the other one supervise baths or washes and teeth.

7.00-7.15 Ds2 goes up to bed and reads to dh until
7.15 when he has lights out.

Ds1 has reading time until 8.00. In the meantime I put dd to bed - she's usually asleep by 7.30, but occasionally plays up so its more like 8.00.

8.00 Ds1 goes to bed and quiet finally descends upon the household!

Then dh and I collapse!

We also do a fair bit of the repetitive reminders, but on the whole the boys are pretty good at following the routine - ds2 is the worst, as he's very slow going in the morning and does a lot of staring into space instead of eating his porridge. They both know however that any time they waste comes off the free time they have before we have to go out and I've found that's a great motivator to get them to shift their bottoms.

It also helps that we made up a homework timetable for the boys and that's on the noticeboard in the kitchen, so they know where to check what they should be doing and its easy for me to keep track of who should be bringing home or handing in things on each day.

Mine have a fear of being late. In 6 years I have had the kids late to school - never. It used to be a great thing to use until they learnt to tell the time.

weve never been late either-im bad at time keeping but only because i get everywhere early! my employers love me!

found 2-3 much easier than 1-2. no 3 just slots in and i had much lower standards eg often used to take her to school in her babygrow, no real routine, just fitted in with the rest. i have 3 yr gaps which made it much easier - older one was just starting nursery by time next one arrived. I knew i had to have no 3, just didn't feel right with two. mornings are fine now (all at school, luckily the same one, you just have to be a bit organised. i get up at 7 to leave at 8. sometimes don't wake youngest til 7.30, never been late. after school can involve a lot of rushing around and waiting around for the little one but i try and take a packed tea for her and do her reading etc while we wait for the others. they often don't all get baths etc but we always make sure there is time for stories and/or reading practice for the younger two and a chat with the older one.

I have 3 (6, 3 and 3) and the ONLY downsides are "Family" hotel rooms and "Family" tickets, that cater for 2 adults and 2 children.

It is wonderful! I had twins the second time, obviously, but had I had a singleton, we'd have gone for another without a doubt!

I have 3 (6, 3 and 3) and the ONLY downsides are "Family" hotel rooms and "Family" tickets, that cater for 2 adults and 2 children.

Completely agree, that is a real pain. Many, many times we've changed our holiday plans because the hotel in question couldn't accommdate 5 of us in a family room...which means 2 rooms = hugely expensive

But you get round these things, they're only minor things really and I love having my 3!

Would not change having 3 for a minute. Had a 4 and half year gap between 2 and 3 which made life much simpler. My DC3 just slotted right in, slept whenever and didn't even wake early. Older DC's adored DC3 from the start and it did wonders for their responsibility. As they got older I had ready made teenage babysitters and it made the trauma of DC1 going off to university easier by having someone's hand to hold on the way to school.
Only downside is the enormous cost of holidays.

Ok.. Here I come with the other side of the coin. I have decided NOT to have a third.

Yes, the practicalities are an issue.. DH works super long hours, no family support network etc but really it's about being the emotional support for so many people. I am one of 5 and, frankly, I always felt that my parents were spread rather thin and there was a lot of sibling rivalry.

For me, personally, my circumstances, the personality of my children (as well as finance and practicalities, obviously) we've dcided that we can just about help two little people to grow into happy, confident adults. For us, three would just tip us all over the edge.

I'm not trying to be controversial, BTW.. I just thought that it might be interesting to adds this element to the debate.

Mamsnet makes a good point.

Yes, having three has worked for a lot of us, but obviously its not right for everyone. That's why I think the OP is doing the right thing by asking questions about the reality of life with 3 children and thinking long and hard before going ahead.

If you find two a breeze and aren't worried about the extra cost (larger car to get 3 seats across the back, as someone else mentioned the 2+2 family days outs and deals, having to fork out for two hotel rooms instead of one etc) then you have the foundations, but it has to be right for your whole family - children included. Some children thrive on being part of a gaggle/gang, others might need more one to one time with their parents and feel they are missing out if more children come along and these sorts of things do have to be added into the equation.

For me, our family didn't feel complete until dd arrived - I loved my boys dearly, but always felt someone was missing (and no, it wasn't a daughter, because it never entered my head that I might have a girl! ).

I always saw our family as a sort of two by two square and when dd arrived we kind of morphed into a circle, which I see in my minds eye as a sort of group hug (soppy but true). In fact I had a dream along those lines that was what finally helped us make up our minds to go for number 3.

Dh and I are both have two siblings though, so maybe that's why we felt there was someone missing until we had 3 dcs?

Thank you so much for getting me moose

I was a bit nervous about posting but feel these threads often only skim the surface of the decision.

I also think it's completely natural to want another baby . It is hard to think I will never give birth or breastfeed again. But a baby is a baby for a very short time.

We have 3. 7, 4 and just about to turn 2. Mornings and evenings have no room for manouvure at all (from 6 'til 9:15 and 2 'til 6:15) - but ds2 is disabled so I have two big chunks of physio to factor in. Rest of day with youngest still busy, but good fun. Do everything myself, though, so always knackered and slightly-to-a-lot stressed almost all the time. Is why I couldn't consider any more. As mamsnet said I'd be spreading myself too thin. Am one of four and know what that feels like. Love, love, love it though when they all play together. Looking forward to them all growing up and getting some headspace, I have to say.

No problem mamsnet - you talk a lot of sense and the OP needs a balanced viewpoint.

Fwiw, I still feel like that about never giving birth or breastfeeding again. I'm incredibly broody at the moment and seem to see newborns everywhere I go, but I know my family is complete now and it wouldn't be right for me to have another. So I completely understand your point of view.

We should really have thought a lot more before having a 3rd child and I feel like a really bad mother for saying that .

FFF don't feel like that, you're not a bad mother - I do think age gaps make a big difference.

It is a right pita when you have different children at different schools or pre-schools/nurserys - we will get it when dd is going into year 1, ds2 is in year 5 and ds1 starts secondary. Unfortunately, due to his AS, he is unlikely to be able to travel to school on his own, so we have the needing to be in two places at once conundrum still to come (and I don't drive - yet!).

To be honest, I think good times come and go in all families and it would be wrong of me or anyone else to suggest that life's always a bed of roses and a lovely fun family fest day in day out. We have tough times, our dcs fight like cat and dog often sometimes, especially the boys (their 2 year, 1 week age gap is a killer) but on the whole - for us it seems to work and we are happy. The same age gaps but different children, with different personalities, in a different family might be completely different.

I agree with moosemama, fourfortyfour your not a bad mother for saying that!

I totally want honesty here, not dressing up as it's hard to make a decision when you don't know what the reality is.

I think im thinking hard about it because I feel im a bit of a stresser/worrier. I've had bouts of anxiety after my two that lasted for a year with each of them so it's not something I could enter into lightly.

Im fine now (nervous tick) but I don't know if I could face it again.

I had 2 high risk PG and have an under active thyroid so health is a bit of an issue.
No major problems but I think it was that that made me think Id have to hurry up and decide this year as I turn 35 in October.

I think after reading these posts, I do have to give myself time though. Not much difference between 35 & 36 in the big scheme of things.

I think you all sound like super mums!
Im pretty unorganised and awful in the mornings since my thyroid went a year ago.

Basically my day is

6.30am DH gets up, boils kettle, showers then gets DS (3.10) and DD (15 months) out of bed.
Brings me my medication/water for thyroid.

While DH and kids have breakfast I shower and dress.
While DH gives DD bottle, I dry my hair and make us a coffee.

So, so far, poor DH is doing all the work while I manage to get myself ready like a zombie!

DH goes to work and I wash kids and brush both kids teeth then put DS's clothes out and he dresses himself.

I then put both kids coats on (DD still in babygrow in buggy) and walk DS to nursery (about an hours walk there and back. DS is on his scooter.

Come home and put DD down for her morning nap and tidy up, make lunch, lift DD out of cot, still in babygrow, go back and pick DS up.

Afternoons can be spent with friends, at softplay or just in the house.

DH returns around 4.30pm and he entertains kids while I make the tea.

We both muck in to get them bathed, read stories, give bottle to DD, get them to bed for 7pm and tidy up etc.

Sometimes Im still pottering until 9pm with washings, ironing and MN!

I just think, what the hell, could 3 be much harder or just a little more of the same?

I couldn't do this without my DH, Im very lucky and I know I get more help than the average. It makes me feel a bit of a non coper though.

We talked more about getting pets than we did having children . I may have still had my 3rd but even when I think maybe we shouldn't I know we only felt like a real family when we had 3. Actually I was very happy with the one.

quickchat I also get a lot of help and support from my dh. Imho that doesn't make you a non-coper, it makes you a team, which to my mind, is as it should be.

I think the routine and organisation comes later, we didn't have much of a routine when my boys were a similar age as your two. In fact, much of the routine is actually an imposed necessity due to school - I really resented it at first, precisely because we had been so flexible before then.

Weekends are much more relaxed, although ds1 does need a certain amount of routine to keep his anxiety levels down, but its pretty flexible.

I don't think I could have coped with three with closer age gaps. I think the thing that made it work for us was having a larger gap with the third, as we already 'worked well' as a family, the boys were older and used to the routine - so she just fitted right into that and I had all day at home with her, so I didn't feel guilty when the boys got my undivided attention in the after school chaos.