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Original poster

Am I a Victorian Parent?

42 replies

flamehairedgirl · 04/02/2011 10:45

My 11 year old daughter is constantly being invited on trips into the local town by a couple of her friends (same age), with no adult supervision. I am very uncomfortable with this, especially as I don't know all the girls involved, and have said no. I personally don't believe they have the maturity to cope should anything untoward happen, or, as girls are prone to do, I can imagine them falling out and my daughter ending up stranded alone in the middle of nowhere! Am I being over protective?

OP posts:

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Simic · 04/02/2011 10:51

No. I think you're being sensible. Have you read "Hold onto your kids - why parents need to matter more than peers" by Neufeld and Mate? It is just a book of the author's ideas and it's obviously not "the truth" but I think their ideas are quite convincing on this: kids need parenting to allow them the space to be able to mature properly - if you're not there guiding them and protecting them from situations with which they are not yet equipped to cope, they will have to try to learn from their peers somehow and it's just the blind leading the blind. Plus that even if the kids feel somehow liberated by not having you as an orientation point any more, they actually act as if they've been spurned by you in that they have a hole which they have to fill, and they fill that by attaching themselves to their peers. The book says FAR more than this - and it's all interesting stuff - even if you don't agree with it all.

Simic · 04/02/2011 10:53

Sorry, that was all very abstract. What I neglected to say was: You know your child and you will be able to judge when she is ready and able to do this. And I agree with you that if you don't know the girls involved, you can't judge the situation as to whether your daughter can handle it yet...

Fennel · 04/02/2011 11:13

I don't know about your dd and her friends, I'd let mine but none of their friends' parents let them go out alone much so I tend to be the parent who's most permissive on this.

I would start practising with your dd what she would do if stranded or lost. I do this a lot with my 10 and 9yos. Do they know how to phonen home? Do they have your mobile and home numbers around their person for emergencies. Do they know how to catch a bus? etc.

Can you take her into town and drop her and watch her catching a bus back, or similar?

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Original poster

flamehairedgirl · 04/02/2011 11:34

Trouble is the latest trip is a birthday thing 15 miles away (1 mum taking them all, dropping off & picking up later) so bus isn't really an option. Also its the whole social dynamic - DD is worried about looking like a baby because she's only one not allowed to go. Could always follow them and stalk them I suppose................

OP posts:

Simic · 04/02/2011 15:22

Could you invite them all to do something with your family first so you can get to know the others?
Is it a birthday party at someone else´s house or is it some kind of activity?

Original poster

flamehairedgirl · 04/02/2011 17:26

Its a cinema trip then restaurant. On this occasion DD understands my reluctance for her not to go, but in general I wonder at what age is it sensible to let your kids out unsupervised? I suspect some parents just give in to pester power and push the worry to the back of their minds. Or has our paranoia about the big bad world completely stripped us of the ability to allow our kids to learn about independence and self reliance? (I still think 11 is far too young!)

OP posts:

broodyelle · 04/02/2011 19:28

my mum wouldn't let me go out to cinema with my friends until I was 13! I felt ready at 11 and my friends were going out at 11 to the cinema alone, it made my relationship with my mum very difficult. Looking back (I am now 21) I can see that she was just worried and I was an only child.

I suggest that you give her the opportunity to prove she is responsible, you don't know until you try it out! Don't just say no outright. maybe invite the girls over for a sleep over so you can get to know them beforehand?

DON'T STALK THEM!!! my mum used to hide at the back of the cinema even when I was 13 and think I couldn't see her! It made me so embarrassed!!

ICannotBloodyBelieveIt · 04/02/2011 20:10

OFGS let her go. I thought from your OP you meant aimlessly wandering around the town centre as my DD used to want to do.

An actual planned out birthday trip is very different. She is being picked up and dropped off so will not be alone at any point and has somewehere specific to go. I think YABU to not let her go at 11. She will feel left out. She has a mobile I presume so can call you if any worries? Let her go.

pointylug · 04/02/2011 20:25

Children go in to the local town centre here by age 10 at least. It's a small town and they all live in it.

I suppose it depends on your town.

You sound over-protective to me but I don;'t know your area.

MrsAlanKey · 04/02/2011 20:29

I think you are being a bit overprotective. Are you worried about anything specific or is it just generalised anxiety? I think you reach a point when its unreasonable to keep them in due to other peoples possible behaviour. If you think that she won't behave herself then that is one thing but external problems like being left by her friends or bothered by boys will still be there at 13 or 15 or 25 and she will learn how to deal with them by dealing with them. You can role play tricky situations with her to help her be prepared. Presumably she manages to get herself to school and back and deals with fallings out etc. when she is there.

If she has money and phone numbers and she knows not to go off alone then there isn't much that can go wrong. Something might happen but its likely to be minor, if a bit upsetting. If she isn't allowed to go then its definitely a bit upsetting and will probably have an effect on her relationship with her friends. Its awful being the one who is left out.

Gonzo33 · 05/02/2011 05:10

I had quite a discussion with my husband over this last night!

A lot depends on the town I guess, but I would allow my son or daughter, when they are 11, to go into town with their friends, even if they were just looking around the shops. I would also allow them to go to the cinema and for a meal if I knew that they were being picked up and dropped off. However I would also suggest she has a "pizza & dvd night" with their friends at my house first so that I had an idea of what her friends were like.

At some point you have to let your children start gaining some independence, otherwise they will not be confident adults.

Just my thoughts.

Gonzo33 · 05/02/2011 05:11

I should have added that I would insist that they had their mobile phone with them and that it had credit.

seeker · 05/02/2011 06:13

Completely overprotective.

What on earth do you think is going to happen to her?

Presumably she knows her way home - and if she does't ie wouldn;t be difficult to show her?

MrsPumphrey · 05/02/2011 06:59

I see your anxieties -you don't know the children: the town is a long way if anything you fear does happen; you're worried about when it's appropriate to start allowing more independent trips, but I can also see how your daughter feels. The suggestions about inviting the children round are good ones, meeting their parents may also reassure you - but for this trip there may not be the opportunity beforehand. A possible compromise might be to let your daughter go, with her mobile as Gonzo suggested, and let her know that you will be shopping in that town later on that day with your mobile on in case she does need you. But do not stalk her! I also agree with Fennel about practising- it may reassure you both

seeker · 05/02/2011 07:07

"Or has our paranoia about the big bad world completely stripped us of the ability to allow our kids to learn about independence and self reliance?"

Yes.

seeker · 05/02/2011 07:11

And so has the over reliance on mobile phones.Parents seem to think that the mere posession of a mobile phone somehow makes children safer. It doesn't, you know. Teaching them how to cross roads, use public transport and what to do if they miss the bus is the way to go. What if the phome is lost, has a flat battery or can't get a signal?

MrsPumphrey · 05/02/2011 07:50

Seeker, see Fennel's post. No-one in this thread has suggested that mobiles make children safer. The OP is responsible and caring and is looking to balance her need to protect with her daughter's growing up. Accusing the OP of paranoia won't reassure her.

seeker · 05/02/2011 08:48

I wasnt accusing her of paranoia, was answering a general question she put in her OP.

And it was another poster a few posts ago who mentioned the importance of mobile phones.

roisin · 05/02/2011 08:48

Ha! Fascinating!
I opened this thread expecting to say yes, you are Victorian Parent, so am I. I insist on good manners, family meals together, no swearing, no endless hours sat in front of screens, etc.

I think children are generally more sensible aged 10 and 11 than they are aged 13 and 14. Therefore it's far better to give them freedom when they're younger, teach them the rules, boundaries and guidelines whilst they are still more bound to what parents say than what their peers say. Then they will learn how to behave and how to stay safe when out alone. Keeping them cooped up til they are teenagers and then letting them loose is a recipe for disaster imo.

I have boys - which I realise is different - but they have a high degree of independence. They don't actually (fortunately) spend much time hanging around in groups with their mates, (they're 11 and 13 now), but I am thoroughly happy to trust them to go down town on their own, go to the cinema on their own, etc. and have done since they were 8 or 9 really.

They are confident and independent, and we've talked through various scenarios of what to do in case of various emergencies.

Original poster

flamehairedgirl · 05/02/2011 08:53

Thanks for all your views, given myself and my DH something to think about. (The stalking thing was a joke by the way!.....)

OP posts:

SKYTVADDICT · 05/02/2011 08:56

My 10 year old, YR6 DD2 is going into our local town today with a group of friends. She is walking there and walking back (about 20 mins each way). Will have her phone. She walks 20 minutes home from school sometimes on her own.

It is the first time as a group - I worry they will be a pain to other shoppers rather than anything happening to her!

She is ill in bed with a cold though so depends how she feels when she gets up!

cory · 05/02/2011 09:53

Up to you, but in the interests of historical accuracy, I don't think you should call yourself a Victorian parent. In those days, 11yos routinely were allowed out without their parents. Think about early children's books: E. Nesbit (admittedly Edwardian): those children are out and about all the time without adults, and that is because they reflect people's expectations.

The current vogue for not allowing 11yos out on their own is very recent, we're talking the last few decades, and ime restricted to the UK: this is not something Continental parents would understand at all. When dd was visiting her Swedish friends, they were allowed to the beach on their own: the assumption being that any 11yo would have a thorough understanding of life saving and plenty of experience of dealing with emergencies without an adult.

Round here (urban area) everybody starts making their own way to school when they go up to secondary, which often involves public transport or long walks (30 mins walk to nearest secondary)- so it is then assumed that they have the ability to cope on their own.

MrsAlanKey · 05/02/2011 09:55

"I think children are generally more sensible aged 10 and 11 than they are aged 13 and 14."

I think that is true. At 11 they will all be falling over themselves to be well behaved. If she stays supervised until she is 13 then the other girls will have 2 years more experience/confidence and she is possibly more likely to get out of her depth.

ivykaty44 · 05/02/2011 10:03

my dd and her freind have another firend in this situation, the mother refesues to allow her dd into town with anyone. It has caused problems as the banned girl has been rather nasty to the girls that are allowed in to town telling them a lot of awful stories that they will get mugged raped and are slappers.

I know the mother and she has brouched the subject with me about not allowing her dd into town - I have told her it is her choice but it is causing terrible problems for her dd otherwise she wouldn't be being quite so nasty to the other girls that are allowed.

Now my dd is at a differnet school and so the problem for us has dissapeared, though the girl did ring at christams to go to the pictures - I did let her go with her though i am actualy nervous about this as if soemthig happens I am worried it will be my dd's fault.

My dd goes on two busses to get to school and one afternoon after school they stop of in the local town and have a drink and wander - for all of an hour.

I don't see how you are going to keep your dd away form some of the experiances without good reason.

No you are not a victorian parent - they gave their children a lot more freedom and don't forget they had children working at 10 years old

coldtits · 05/02/2011 10:46

yes you are being over protective. Eleven year olds had much more freedom in the victorian times

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