Accused of stealing

[quofan]

Hello, I'm new here and I need advice. I have just been approached by the mum of one of my daughters 'friends' who says that my daughter(9) has stolen gel pens worth £15 from her kids school bag. I was shocked, as just yesterday we were called into school about my dd lying about her teachers - this is so uncharacteristic. I have given her every opportunity to own up, telling her I'd be proud if she did own up and so on, but she insists she did not take them. Trouble is 2 year 8's say they saw her do it too. She is distraught and is worried about school on Monday. She says I can call the police cos she really did not do it. I am so unsure here. I want to believe her but find it hard cos of the lies yesterday, but I don't want her to feel that she cannot trust me if she really is telling the truth. Please help me What do I do?

you could start to dial the police (line up a friend to talk to you on the other side) and speak to them and see if she tries to stop you

I think if it is that out of character I might believe her tbh but difficult to know as I don't know your kid

what was a child doing with 15 pounds worth of pens in her school bag anyway??? I would believe your dd, as she said you could call the police. Have you searched her bag and room??

Yes I have done a thorough search of both and found nothing. She is so fragile atm, having just changed to middle school, and this girl that accuses her caused nothing but strife in first school too

I would believe her - give her your support, she sounds as if she needs it atm

I think you HAVE to believe her. It's too big a gamble. Innocent intil proved guilty.
You have to afford her trust because otherwise she'll never tell you the truth about anything if she thinks you won't believe her.

If you believe her it sends out the message that you do trust her and that can only be good for your relationship.

Poor thing is really scared now. Even if she did do it, she's been thorugh so much in her own mind so it's punishment enough and she'd think twice about doing it again.

Perhaps you could explain to the 'friends' mum that you really believe your daughter didn't do it, but as a good will gesture you'll give her half the cost of the pens because you don't wish to fall out over it.

She can't expect any more. Your first duty is to your daughter.

Sorry to hear you're going through this upsetting experience and good luck with resolving it.

I also agree that you have to beleive her.
If she's lying, the truth will probably out eventually but that's your little girl. If you don't beleive her, who will?

quofan,
how horrid. Ive also got a dd aged nearly 9, and I agree with the others - you've got to believe your dd. It will be just too hurtful for her if you dont, and may damage your relationship. And the truth will probably out anyway given time.

spidermama's suggestion of offering to pay half sounds a good idea.

fwiw, I agree with whoever made the point that sending a child to school with 15 pounds worth of gel pens is asking for trouble!

First of all, have you found the pens in your daughter's bag or room or locker? Do you have any way of checking that she might actually have them? She may well not have done, but in case she has read on ...

I was going to change my name for this but tbh I can't be bothered. If anyone knows me, your discretion would be greatly appreciated!

I used to take other people's things when I was small. I was quite a prolific thief - a pencil sharpener from a shop, some toy petrol pumps from my cousin, a necklace from a girl who's house I'd been to, some smurfs and toy makeup from another friend, a Sindy dress and lots and lots of other bits and pieces. It happened over about 2 years, from about age 7-9.

I'm not exactly sure why I did it, but I know I liked the secrecy and thrill of it. I enjoyed the cloak and dagger of the theft bit, and the buzz of almost being caught. I also remember that everyone used to say what a "good little girl" I was, and wanting to do something "bad" instead.

When my mum found out, which she did on several occasions, I swore blind I hadn't done it. I thought that if I denied it enough I wouldn't really have done it, if that makes sense. I was quite convincing, but with some of the earlier stuff I told my mum that it got in my pocket "by magic" and I really couldn't understand why she didn't believe me. It seemed a perfectly plausible explanation to me. My mum quietly gave things back to their owners and the ones she couldn't give back she threw away, so I didn't benefit long term, and it was a long time before she made me face the consequences of what I'd done.

The last thing I took was the Sindy dress. When my mum found it she made me give it back personally, face to face, and explain that it had somehow got mixed up with my Sindy things and that I was very sorry. I was mortified, mainly because I didn't like the girl who it belonged to so I didn't want to apologise. I can't honestly say if it was the face to face thing that stopped me, but I certainly didn't take other children's things again. I do think that if my mum had been tougher earlier I might have been scared out of doing it as I remember being really chuffed that I was getting away with it.

Sorry this is so long, but if it does turn out that your daughter has taken these pens, or if anyone else is in a similar situation, I HTH.

you have to believe your child. or rather your child has to be confident you are on her side. go on the attack and ask why the kid had £15 worth ofr pens in her back, phone the school and ask questions about this in particular and ask for a letter to be sent home .......infact get everyone on the back foot.

stupid kid shouldnt have £15 worth of pens in a school bag anyway. bleeding ridiculous, stupid fkin mother even more stupid

tell her to report every incident of name calling, rudeness, pushing, sly kicking, shoving - anything, report every incident on monday

by tuesday the other girls willlook like thugs.

me defensive mother never

But it is possible that quofan's daughter has stolen the pens. Two other children claim to have seen her. And she has recently been lying about teachers.
It may, and I stress MAY be the start of something that quofan would like to nip in the bud. We'd all like to back our children to the hilt and proclaim their innocence, but by posting this I think quofan suspects that her daughter may not be entirely innocent.
My mum wasn't defensive with me, but she appeared to believe me and didn't make me face up to what I'd done. If she had I would probably have stopped nicking other kids' stuff much sooner than I did.

I agree about having £15 worth of pens. Ridiculous!

But equally, kids that age aren't aware of the cost, in pounds sterling, of the pens they're nicking (or not nicking). That's a grown-up pre-occupation.

Interesting post badhair. Particularly the bit about everyone saying, 'good girl' and you perhaps rebelling against that.

god yes custy you are sooooo right about going on the attack.

the real issue is why has the kid got pens worth 15 pounds in her schoolbag, not which child may or may not have nicked them.

does the school have any rules about bringing valuables in to school (phones, jewelry?)

brave of you to post, badhair - but quofan has noactual proof that her daughter has taken the pens, so she has imo no option but to believe her and back her up with this

badhair, thats a good point, but what about the damage done by a long blame session of trying to get her to admit it?

spidermama, it is reasonable to assume that more expensive stuff is more desirable though?

I still think I'd back my daughter because it's very important she's believed. If she is stealing there will be underlying reasons which need to be tackled.

If she isn't and you don't believe her .... she'll never tell you anything againg.

Either way I'd subtly start an education campaign in a couple of weeks (apparently unrelated) about stealing and honesty.

Yes they must be pretty cool pens if they're worth £15. But the mum shouldn't be sending them to school. It's no accident that theft tends to occur when people are deemed to be flashy or ostentatious.

make a point of saying to your dd, i beleive you and i beleive that if you had done it that you would tell me as trust and truth are very important things or something along these lines anyway.

had this recently with ds1, not stealing, lying, but when gave him a little talk about trust, truth, honesty etc he admitted that he had lied, and on that occassion as it had taken him a lot of courage to admit that he had lied we didn't punish him, but said that if he lied again then he would be punished for both the lying and whatever it was that he had lied about if it was a punishable 'offence' e.g hitting his brother.

While I think it unwise to let a kid go to school with valuables, I don't think we should get into 'blame the victim' either. What next, you shouldn't have been wearing that watch out at night, shouldn't have worn a short skirt, jsut asking for trouble.

If your daughter isn't going to admit to theft you have to turn detective.

Firstly, are the Year 8 children "independent" witnesses, ie are they friends with the accuser? If they are independent then what reason could they possibly have for making up this lie? If they are friends of the accuser then they are probably colluding and I'd discount them straight away.

Secondly, is there anywhere that your daughter could have hidden the pens? Check everywhere until you are sure she does not have them. Try to do this without her knowing so that a) she doesn't think you're checking up on her, and b) she doesn't have chance to move them.

If you can't find the pens and you think the witnesses are unreliable, then I would go ahead and back your daughter all the way. But if you have a shred of doubt then leave it alone for now but definitely do an education campaign like Spidermama suggested.

And although I agree that allowing a child to take £15 of pens to school is ludicrous, imagine how you would feel if it was your child's pens that were stolen, but nothing seemed to have been done about it.

what am about to say sounds a bit eek but
i have "cut the crap" talks with my kids when something goes tits up. i tell them that as long as i know the truth i can sort it out. i will not leave them to be metaphorically slaughtered by children at school or people in authority - they would have to deal with my punishment but i wouldnt leave them hanging out to dry.

i then tell them that if they are lying they will get tripped up and i will then look like a proper tit for defending them and tell them not to put me in that position.

it works more often than not - i get the truth only then can i decide on what to do.

so if the kid admits stealing the pens i would say good girl for teling me, let me have a think about it becuase the other kid was stupid to have £15 worth of gel pens i the first place.

i would then probably not admit liaibility to parent concerned but buy some gel pens as a seemingly act of good faith

then punish daughter by making her clean toilet or something...working to pay me the money back for the pens.

thereby not leaving her open to tealeaf name calling at school making her entire life a misery.

well thats what i would do.

D'you know what Custy, that would probably have worked with me. Sound advice, but think I needed to admit liability to make me face up to what I'd done. The humiliation was terrible, much worse than when I saw the other kids upset because their things had gone missing.

Good advice, well put custy.
HMB I agree it would be wrong to 'blame' the 'victim', but there are explanations about the way people behave. Understanding these things can be a better preventative than simply punishing the perpetrators.

that is a good point about blame the victim hmb, but I think the cases are not totally comparable.
Lots of schools have "no valuables" rules, because the consequences of being discovered as a thief are so much worse than the actual crime in most cases. It could follow a child for the rest of their school career. (Would you go to a school reunion, if you'd been unmasked as the class thief aged 9, 30 years ago?)

This is so well known, and no valuables rules are so common, that in this case, Id say the victim is partly to blame (or her mum, rather, for letting her take them).

Of course, I wouldnt tell my dd that it was the other girl's fault, if I discovered that she had taken something like these pens.

Fully agree that you have to understand why someone steals...have no issue with that at all.

I would never personaly let my kids go to school with valuables, but if they did I would expect the theft of those valuables to be taken seriously and not kissed off with, 'well it was stupid to take them to school, stupid kid and even more stupid mother'. We have a right to be protected from our stupidity I think.

I choose not to wader the street at night because I percieve them as risky, but I still feel sympathy for someone who does that and gets mugged.