So ashamed of my children today....

[feellikerunning]

....and so many days it seems....

I have gone round and round in circles trying to work out what I have done wrong. They whine, they scream, they fight the WHOLE time. When we discipline them they hurl abuse at us. I just want to run away most days. DH and I sit there in exhausted silence most evenings when they are in bed.

It feels like we can't do anything normal. I dread social occasions. DD1 age 8 has been to a lot of playdates and sleepovers so I felt this week I had to reciprocate. I think we must have traumatised her friend yesterday. They fought and screamed at each other and when I sent 2 of the 3 upstairs after several warnings DS threw the laptop and DD2 screamed for an hour until she fell asleep.

Pretty much every day is like that. We wanted children and now we have everything we wanted and it's horrendous. I know that's a terrible thing to say and we're lucky to have 3 healthy children but honestly we can't cope with them.

This isn't normal is it? I just think we much have done something really wrong or can you just get 3 really challenging personalities?

Mine behave perfectly at school - parents evening is always gratifying.

But when they're fighting and whining they are unbearable and it feels never ending.

It leaves me feeling deflated, guilty, depressed and useless.

God my last post sounded like I'm up my own a*!

I wasn't bragging about them at school, I was meaning to highlight the difference in their behaviour.

They are very well behaved at school, but utterly hideous when with me - and that is at home as well as in shops (sometimes) - and I am at the end of my tether with it.

I was so relieved to find this thread, as I was feeling like an utter failure who had ruined her kids, so it was very reassuring to read about so many others whose close in age kids bicker and fight and answer back.

just sending sympathy too
yesterday was foul (3 dcs non-stop quarrelling)
today I tried to be more positive, get out first thing and keep telling them how pleased I was with them.. the combination of exercise and a bit less nitpicking seemed to work. We had a good day. I think they felt I was calmer and they completely stopped attention seeking aka fighting...
So I suppose what it boils down to is that children get unbelievably stressed when we are stressed and it makes them behave worse than ever so if you can just pretend you are in a good mood it can sometimes prevent the tension building and the bad behaviour..

Tbh what really struck home was your description of each in their own way winding you and each other up in an endless cycle of recriminations. Everyone is to blame and everyone blames everyone else...

Dh's theory is that you combine listening with much stricter boundaries at that point. Everyone goes to their room immediately if they are fighting, without any shouting or aggression from you the parent. Then you don't talk about the bad behaviour when they come out. You don't take sides, but you make it clear that they have to sort out some of their issues with siblings themselves.

I've witnessed dss fighting over something, being put in their rooms on the basis that they can play by themselves if they don't want to play together (ie: not punishment, just play alone) Within five minutes they are begging to play together again, the fighting was just code for feeling cross generally and wanting mum to get involved. Sometimes giving them attention by setting a boundary makes them feel better and safer. You involve yourself in the right way (setting a boundary) not the wrong way (paying attention to fighting and getting fed up and harassed)

Need to go to bed now, so I can be in a good mood tomorrow again

Good luck and I totally sympathise.

Also, you ignore, and literally walk away when they are screaming or arguing with you, except to say, I'm sorry you are feeling bad..and leave it at that. No contempt no sarcasm no resentment in your tones, just disinterest, until they can calm down.

My 2 share a room!
My ds1's teacher told me it's quite normal for extreme behaviour differences with other people.
Ds1 is fine going to chool if his cm or dp take him. if I take hin he really plays up. Nightmare.

swan It did dawn on me a while ago that it wasn't them having the bad days, it was me, but once you get into this negative cycle it can be hard to break. Tomorrow is another day though

a lot of the discussion on here is about consequences, but it's always best to avoid problems, rather than have to resolve them.

i know it sounds trite, but are there ways you can prevent things - you took them for a walk, any more ideas like that?

friends of ours had 2 boys, and 1 of them went through a phase where he would just be horrible - whining & annoying everyone til he got a reaction. the parents learnt that when he was like that, to send him our for exercise. luckily, they had a treadmill in the garage & would just tell him - 20 mins, then come in & talk to us. for them it worked.

can you set aside time for each of them - so a dvd for the younger 2, and time alone with dd1? and swap things round, so they all feel they get some attention?

could you & dh agree that all housework will be done by you both in the eves, so you JUST concentrate on getting the kids sorted - if necessary, do a pack lunch each eve, so you don't even have to get sandwiches during the day. then for just one or two weeks, do NOTHING but focus on your kids - then there's less chance of them doing things behind your back & trying to deny it.

also, give them ONE thing to improve on - so ds, 'when i get angry, i will ...' and every time he manages, he gets a tick/sticker, and after so many, he gets a reward (which could be extra 1-2-1 with you or dh).

if you want to change behaviours, you just have to make it the only priority for a while, until YOU are happy with how things are.

Lots of great ideas here - I would try them all, in fact I probably have! My two ds are 13 & 15 now - much better than that mid childhood age but still know how to wind each other up for sure.

I agree with apple&blackberry - look into their food and not just the junk food either.

There is a book called "Fed Up" by Sue Dengate which was a real life saver for my ds1 and me when he was about 4-5 yrs old. It could have been describing him exactly, especially the part about "low tolerance for frustration".
This might seem like a difficult eating plan but it really is worth trying properly if you are at the end of your tether. I was and I am so glad I did it.

HI there FLR

Lovely to find this thread - I feel your pain. My two (6 & 8) have hardly been able to say a civil word to each other since start of hols apart from when they are laughing manically as they create some hideous mess or jump around on the bed sounding as if they are about to come thundering through the ceiling.

We have had a pretty stressful year with lots of upheaval and I have been stressed/ depressed/ very cross and shouty and unpredictable for a lot of it so have been wallowing in guilt thinking I have caused all this nastiness in my DCs. At least this thread has given me some hope that I have not ruined them completely

DD is often sweet and lovely but often miserable, cries loudly for no reason (OK not no reason but about minor things like not being able to do coat up), gets very cross and shouty (a bit like me ....). It really grates on me and on bad days I just lose my temper the moment it starts and want to go and put my head in a sound proof box until it ends.

DS is clever & charming but also a smart alec, constantly disagrees with everything - even statements such as "do not touch that burning hot hotplate you will burn your hand". He has a mission to wind up DD from the moment he wakes until the moment his eyes shut at night.

We too have had a miserable sledging outing where DD said she was scared and stood at the top of the (quite small) slope crying for most of it while DS enjoyed himself but then amused himself more on way home by banging his sledge into hers every 20 seconds.

The best times we have had this holiday has been when they are watching TV or eating sweets (only allowed equiv of a pack of choc buttons a week so those times quite limited!).

I do try all the techniques mentioned above but find it so hard to be consistent when I feel worn down by the constant conflict and chaos. I grew up as almost a single child (sibling much older than me) and so never had to contend with all this jostling for sibling supremacy.

I'm not sure if I have anything constructive to add here but maybe could suggest that if your DP is home over Xmas you could spend some time alone with each of them doing something nice to remind yourself of the fact that they are basically fine and when they are about 30 they will be civilised adults that you can be proud of.

HI there FLR

Lovely to find this thread - I feel your pain. My two (6 & 8) have hardly been able to say a civil word to each other since start of hols apart from when they are laughing manically as they create some hideous mess or jump around on the bed sounding as if they are about to come thundering through the ceiling.

We have had a pretty stressful year with lots of upheaval and I have been stressed/ depressed/ very cross and shouty and unpredictable for a lot of it so have been wallowing in guilt thinking I have caused all this nastiness in my DCs.

DD is often sweet and lovely but often miserable, cries loudly for no reason (OK not no reason but about minor things like not being able to do coat up). It really grates on me and on bad days I just lose my temper the moment it starts.

DS is a smart alec, constantly disagrees with everything - even statements such as "do not touch that burning hot hotplate you will burn your hand". He has a mission to wind up DD from the moment he wakes until the moment his eyes shut at night.

We too have had a miserable sledging outing where DD said she was scared and stood at the top of the (quite small) slope crying for most of it while DS enjoyed himself but then amused himself more on way home by banging his sledge into hers every 20 seconds.

The best times we have had this holiday has been when they are watching TV or eating sweets (only allowed equiv of a pack of choc buttons a week so those times quite limited!).

I do try all the techniques mentioned above but find it so hard to be consistent when I feel worn down by the constant conflict and chaos. I grew up as almost a single child (sibling much older than me) and so never had to contend with all this jostling for sibling supremacy.

I'm not sure if I have anything constructive to add here but maybe could suggest that if your DP is home over Xmas you could spend some time alone with each of them doing something nice to remind yourself of the fact that they are basically quite nice and when they are about 30 they will be civilised adults that you can be proud of.

Whoops - sorry for long and tedious double post.

Thanks for the reassurance everyone. It's definitely the case that we get viscious circles of someone's mood affecting everyone else's (including mine, and in both postive and negative directions).

I will definitely try the DVD for the younger 2 and do something with DD1. Then maybe try to get the girls packed off to friends one day and do something with DS etc. But we do have to get used to being together.

I'm going to try to make Christmas cards today with them. And we'll get out somewhere too, I've come to the conclusion that we must get out every day somewhere.

Sometimes I find DS in particular is fine if I don't disturb him or make any demands on him, however this often involves him staring at the tv or playing on his ds for hours. I know that's not the best thing for him to do bit it's so tempting to just keep the peace and I guess it's the holidays and he wouldn't normally have time for that.

Mine are extremely testing at this time of year and I have really struggled, the best thing I have done is if I say I'm going to do something ie. send them to their room etc., I do it, previously I've just threatened and never followed through with the punishment and that has caused my children to just think I'm joking all the time. No more, however, no more!!! I now mean business!!

You go sadie
Today is a new day for us too.
I'm taking NO SHIT! You hear me rat-bags? NO SHIT

(Am a teacher) A v. experienced colleague recommended telling young children how they feel as they often lack the words/knowledge they need - 'you are angry, tell me why you are angry' (if you get their emotion wrong they will tell you!); this is useful as you are acknowledging how they are feeling and opening discussion rather than saying 'stop shouting and calm down!'
One small technique to add to the armoury but I have always found it useful (when I remember it!)

feellikerunning..I know it feels contraindicative to being relaxed, chilling out, but if your ds is quite highly strung you may find it better to set a specific time of day he can go on computer ds, and then SWITCH IT OFF after you have agreed how long he can go on it. It think it really makes them behave worse when they return to family life, as they cannot remember how to talk to people I found my ds would scream blue murder when I told him to switch off, but then within 10 mins was absolutely fine playing chatting reading again, whereas when I was actually too frightened to switch it off it was just delaying the bad behaviour for another point in the day.

Anyway all children are different, but I think too much computer time does make some boys very very wired and sort of anti-social.

My kids are watching CBBC at the moment. I am pysking myself up to switch it off and go and buy a Xmas tree (long walk) with them.

Someone also said to me...just keep remembering YOU ARE THE PARENT. They want you to be parental...whatever that means

Feellike making Xmas cards can be a minefield. Just thought I would warn you!
Don't expect too much from yourself or them..

I have 3 dc (5,4,1) and feel your pain op. What I find works best is having a lovely time with them (or faking it), particularly individually but works in a group too. In general I am lovely funny mummy.
Then when they do something bad, first I try and understand it from their point of view, if it is still bad I turn evil and mean (I only need to shout)and they will do a lot to avoid this.
This method depends on you having the energy to be lovely and happy, or being a good actor.

That's it...set a very few rules, stick to them...(don't be tempted to have too many or they stop listening) and then do a lot of being PLAYFUL (isn't there that book about being a playful parent? Another thread) where you try and get them on your side by devious and cunning methods (no this is not pandering, just Involvement)
You make things into a joke, you turn situations on their head, laugh about problems and generally jolly them along.

Lots of good advice here already.

I have 3 DCs but they are now older (15, 12, 10). Some things we learnt along the way:

• 3 is always chaos, it doesnt matter which two you have in the room, when the third comes in chaos will start.
• Our strictest rules are about how they behave towards each other and us. They have to be polite, shouting at each other or at us is not tolerated.
• manage expectations especially for days out eg 'we are going to the zoo but we will not be going into the gift shop'. This was especially necessary for DS.

DS has the most extreme emotions. He will quite often be sent to his room to calm down before he gets too overwhelmed. In this way his room is more a place of refuge than punishment.

LoveMyGirls is right - model the behaviour you want. I like things to be calm so try to put on a calm front (even when seething inside)

My boys aren't being too bad at the moment, in fact they are being really good.
We had a touch and go morning, but then we all walked to the shops and got a few bits, then came home for some lunch. I then printed off some reward charts (bought some star stickers at shop) and told them that everytime they are kind, or help mummy or do what they are asked to, then they will get a sticker. When they have 5 stickers, I will get the bubbles out.
We are having a good afternoon, we had 10 mins of colouring nicely, which earned them both a sticker, 10 mins with the puzzles and they both got a sticker and now they are sharing the train tracks nicely so will get another sticker in a mo.

good for you, SilveryMoon.

reminds me that I Santa has bought the cat some catnip bubbles. But I think he's on Santa's naughty list as he brought a robin in yesterday. Very festive.

Well the card-making didn't turn into chaos - lots of mess and noise but in a good way. I tried not to have any expectations and went with the flow. DD2 wanted lots of help and input, DS wanted no interference at all and DD1 the perfectionist almost lost it when it didn't turn out the way she wanted but it was fine and I even enjoyed it! I think we've all calmed down a bit, I didn't realise how worn out we all were with the build-up to the holidays. It's amazing what a difference having a bit of spare energy makes. Thanks everyone and Merry Christmas xxx