So ashamed of my children today....

[feellikerunning]

....and so many days it seems....

I have gone round and round in circles trying to work out what I have done wrong. They whine, they scream, they fight the WHOLE time. When we discipline them they hurl abuse at us. I just want to run away most days. DH and I sit there in exhausted silence most evenings when they are in bed.

It feels like we can't do anything normal. I dread social occasions. DD1 age 8 has been to a lot of playdates and sleepovers so I felt this week I had to reciprocate. I think we must have traumatised her friend yesterday. They fought and screamed at each other and when I sent 2 of the 3 upstairs after several warnings DS threw the laptop and DD2 screamed for an hour until she fell asleep.

Pretty much every day is like that. We wanted children and now we have everything we wanted and it's horrendous. I know that's a terrible thing to say and we're lucky to have 3 healthy children but honestly we can't cope with them.

This isn't normal is it? I just think we much have done something really wrong or can you just get 3 really challenging personalities?

To some extent kids will be kids and they can't behave impeccably ALL the time BUT if you lay down the rules and make sure they understand them and pull them up everytime they misbehave it doesn't take long for them to behave a lot better most of the time ime.

If it helps things I'm really strict on are:

the way I'm spoken to (I will not put up with attitude of cheek)
helping tidy up / doing as asked (I'm not a slave driver but do expect a bit of help round the house eg today when my dc's aged 5 and 11 started playing I said we're not going out today as I am not very well and I've got things to do so you can pretty much do what you like within reason BUT whatever you get out must be tidied away by the time your dad comes home from work. I also asked dd1 to make me a cup of tea, peel potatoes and hoover as well as tidy her own mess which there wasn't much of tbh)

Punishments I give out include:

bed early (this is a win win imo, dd gets more sleep as usually naughty from tiredness and I get to relax earlier)
confiscating phone/ laptop (dd1 doesn't like this as it cuts her off from friends)
not allowing facebook (see above)
not taking dd to friends if requested (not often I do this because I do like dd to interact with friends and want her to be popular but if she doesn't do as she is asked I don't see why I should put myself out to do as she has asked so I will threaten this one more than I have ever had to use it tbh)
no tv until x, y, z is done (this works well with dd2)
time out on the stairs even for 11yr old dd (this works for all ages ime, no one likes to be excluded and time alone can help to reflect on how they have behaved)

On top of all this I try to be a good role model.

I also help tidy up
I say sorry if I have done something wrong eg reacted OTT because I have had a bad day or have pmt etc
Try to ask them to do things nicely, with manners!
Give praise, cuddles and kisses as much as I can.
try to provide fun things to keep them entertained such as dd2 has painted xmas decs, dd1 has a cross stitch to do is she gets bored.

hth a bit.

sympathies OP

I find this stage of parenthood much harder than babies & toddlers! The noise, siblings arguing/shouting and general chaos.... arhhh

I have days when I want to run too!

Agree with what has been said before, they are probably very tired and they probably are also trying to find out where the boundaries are.

It might be time to sit down for a chat. Agree what needs to change and manageable steps towards that aim with rewards if they are met. Steps for each kid, so that if one messes up the ones who have done well get their reward.

It won't change at once, but it is a matter of starting the process of change. I would also re-evaluate on a regular basis together, ask them how they think they and you are doing and also tell them what you think.

Good luck, it is never too late to make changes and they will be grateful when they are older and have learnt to behave appropriately.

Loads of good advice on here, but just wanted to add that lots of food additives are known to make behaviour worse so if you don't already it might help to avoid artificial colours, sweeteners and flavourings (e.g. squash, fizzy drinks, sweets, some crisps, a lot of 'kids' snacky things etc etc).

Thanks again everyone, some really helpful suggestions. I do find this stage much harder than the baby/toddler stage. That was much more physically tiring but I find the three strong personalities just overwhelming. They are all constantly fighting for dominance and ALWAYS want me to get involved and take one side over another (which I don't). They can't even do something really simple like all get a yoghurt and spoon without a fight.

To answer the questions above: DS doesn't use the laptop, it's on a desk on the landing which is the only place available. He pulled all the leads/plugs out and threw it on the floor (fortunately it seems to be fine) because I sent him to his room.

I don't think food is an issue, but I do think tiredness is a factor at the moment. I agree no playdates/sleepovers for a while (I hate sleepovers anyway!). I was sort of backed into the one this week - DD1 went to a sleepover at the other girl's house a couple of weekends ago and the mum asked if she wanted to come again, but I think she was waiting for me to say her daughter could come here instead, which I then did.

I agree too about the negative cycle.

I'm going to make an effort to take them somewhere to run around every day and not care too much about people staring at them when they fight. Apart from that will keep things quiet. And maybe get some earplugs so I don't get so wound up about the noise/mess.

Very interesting thread with lots of great ideas.
I've tried reward charts etc with my 3 year old, but he really hates them.
he displays some good, positive behaviour (like sharing a toy), and I tell him what a good boy he's being and that he is sharing nicely so have a reward token/sticker, and OMG the screaming!
he throws a big hissy fit because I try to put a sticker on a chart. WTF????

Then there's the whole what to do if you're out.......do you carry a reward chart and stickers everywhere? Do you use some kind of portable card and transfer stuff to the chart when you get home?
Plus then I struggle to decide what to reward with.

my top tips, if they help.

Make punishments fit the crime. The are just kids, so rather send them to their rooms for 5 minutes ....10 x a day, rather than send them to their room for half an hour.

No TV for the morning, rather than the day.

ditto no games console...

Make sure you only warn once. But before you implement this rule, make sure you tell them that there's a new sheriff in town.

You could ask, in a calm moment, what THEY think he punishment should be for eg throwing the laptop. Their punishments will be far harsher than yours.

One punishment per incident. Its very easy to pile punishments on punishments for non compliance. There are exceptions, like destruction of property, when an additional sanction should be imposed. But only after the original punishment has been completed. Otherwise the behaviour escalates.

Plenty of exercise and plenty of good food.

Be consistent between you and your other half.

Don't get into an argument about punishments. They love this one....you end up screaming at them because they wont follow rules, rather than for the thing they did in the first place - its a big old distraction technique. Instead, for the one that wont go willingly to the room, tell him/her that eg you will not go to the park until they have gone to their room.

Plan an outside treat everyday for 2/3oclock or so - the park, swimming, snowman building competition, sledging, even a walk to the shop to buy an icecream or a bun from the baker. (you getting out the house will be of benefit too). They should know what it is, and look forward to it. Then you have a big ol' carrot for good behaviour. However, make sure they know what behaviours are expected.

For the screamer, when you tell her to go to her room, tell her the 5 minutes starts when she stops screaming. Tell her this before she goes upstairs....ie "Im sending you to your room for 5 minutes. there will be no screaming. If you scream, I will start the 5 minutes over again. You will spend 5 minutes in your room QUIETLY. Then you can come downstairs again. ou will not come down until you have spent 5 quiet minutes. That cantake 5 minutes, or it can take all day with you screaming. It is your choice."

For your destroyer, make sure he knows that for anything he breaks, you will take away one toy, on Christmas morning. He will have to earn it back with a week/3 days of good behaviour. And follow through. looking at a brightly coloured pressie under the tree for even an afternoon will focus his mind.

AFter Christmas, destruction of property should mean him giving up one of his nice things to pay for the thing he broke. Make sure he understands this in a quiet moment.

Then, before the throws something (i'm guessing he does it with an audience) remind him...."if you throw that laptop and it breaks, I will sell your ds and your Wii/your bike/your TV to pay for a new one. the smart thing to do would be to put down the laptop, or you will lose your stuff".

finally, I found this book very helpful.

Reward charts and stickers do work with some children and the practicalities are nit difficult. If you want to establish the notion that x behaviour gets x sticker reward then it is pretty simple to work out the practicalities. But if it isn't working for you and your child then perhaps it isn't the right thing.

As for punishments, the point is that human beings are programmes to avoid negative outcomes.

If a child is still doing things in the knowledge that. He will be sent to his room then clearly he doesn't give much of a shit about being sent to his room.

You have to know your child and know exactly the right punishment is.
If the punishment is bad enough then they will want., really really want to avoid it.
It also cuts out the situation where you are fighting all the time.

You sit din and gently explain why things have to change, that friends won't be bake to come visit if the behaviour continues as it is and that it is making you all cross and upset.
Then explain that if they are really good all day then you will all have x treat.
On the other hand if they play up they get a yellow card. If they play up again they get acres card and go to bed. If they then do it again then x will happen.

For ds1 x was taking away all his electronic stuff, ds,computer and gamecube for three days.

For ds2 it was taking away his fav DVDs until he behaved well enough to get them back.

For dd it was no swimming or gym.

I had to do it once with ds1, once with ds2 and have never got past sending to bed with dd..because she saw me follow through with thevpunishment for the other two and wouldn't chance it

Thing is, once you lay out the rules you can stop fighting them. It takes all the stress out because thecrukes are clear. I just said to ds1 very calmly 'well that was really foolish wasn't it' and went and packed his stuff into a box and locked it up.

I hated having to punish them. But it was worth it. They knew there was a consequence and they absolutely knew I meant it so I almost never have to punish any of them. So we can get on with having a blast. My kids are deeply happy -they know what the rules are and have learnt to manage themselves.
If dd is getting shitty I can catch it before it gets too bad and say 'paggirl, you are being really snarky and I am getting quite irritated with your attitude. Do you want to go and chill somewhere for a minute and come back when you feel better or do you want a chat and tell me what's bothering you'.

I have a kind of backbone of structure and rules that allows us all to relax.

I take toys etc away from my ds1 when he is showing negative behaviour. Said toy goes on top of the microwave for 15 minutes, then I give it back abd tell him if he does whatever again, I will take it for the rest of the day, but maybe I should start waiting until he has actually earned the toy back.

All this parenting business is so hard isn't it?

Bloody hard.

As they get older you hope it will get easier...

pag
I really need to get out of that cycle of houting. I hate it. I have some books to read, to see if there are any techniques that might work.
(Raising Boys, How to Talk and Siblings Without Rivalry)

100% agree with pagwatch, I'm the same with mith my dd's and pag makes a good point "They knew there was a consequence and they absolutely knew I meant it so I almost never have to punish any of them. So we can get on with having a blast. My kids are deeply happy -they know what the rules are and have learnt to manage themselves."

This is what I'm aiming for, dd2 is much better behaved because I have always had the rules etc dd1 is more challenging because I didn't bring the rules in until later on and she still thinks pushing it is a good idea sometimes, I will say to dd1 why do you do it, you know you will be punished so there is no point? She says I know I don't know it's just hard.

I'm hoping today will be the first day this week I don't have to send her to bed early because of her attitude/ cheek but we'll see....

Sometimes, I find that a punishment can just be so stresful.
Plus I need things that are appropriate to my ds's ages, so going to bed early is not really an option atm as it'd just cause more stress for me. He'd be in there screaming and don't know if it's appropriate for a 3 year old

Silvery, punishing such a little one is very very difficult.
At that age, they are so small and have only bits of impulse control etc and they find it hard to understand behaviour = consequence.

IMHO at that age distraction or immediate and completely relevant punishments are the only reasonable thing.
So throwing a toy at you = that toy being taken away.

I think I did a lot of ignoring and distracting when they were still three.

I'd stick with time out for a 3yr old, I don't think there is any point giving a punishment hours after the event.
Don't give up though because it just makes the next time harder, if he moves you put him back, explain why he is there in as few words as possible and give no attention for it, once he has sat for 3 mins he says sorry and you have a hug. Pick your battles, choose a few things you really won't have and some things you might just tell him not to do.

I also warn dc's eg please get down off the sofa you might fall. (still jumping on it), Get down or you will go in time out. (if they still carry on) You are going in time out because you didn't get down.

It is hard, I remember when my dd1 was 3yrs old, something suddenly clicked and I thought no one is coming to take her, she is mine forever so if I don't sort out her behaviour then no-one will and if she misbehaves and has no respect for me now then I've got no chance of her listening to me when she is a teenager.

And Pag is right again

Nipping it in the bud is good too, if you can tell when he is starting to misbehave.

Good routine is key too, children who eat regularly, sleep regularly and generally know what is happening will behave better ime.

Thanks ladies
Ds1 (the 3yo) is quite good with the naughty spot, he will stay there for the full 3 mins. He calls out to me, but I ignore him.
When the 3 mins is up, I go to him, tell him to stand up and then I ask him if he knows why he was sent to the naughty spot, to which he normally tells me the reason, so he does understand and remember.
It just doesn't stop him, he will walk into the living room, say sorry to his brother and then wallop him again!
Now ds2 (22 months) has started retaliating and hitting back, so now I have 2 of them at it!! aaarrrrgggghhhhhhhh

The other thing I struggle with, is that I think ds1 needs to see it is the same rules for everyone and no one is allowed to hit or push, but then I have to physically hold ds2 on the naughty spot which you're not supposed to do.

(shockingly they are being quite good today, cbeebies is my saviour!)

OP, I would like to apologise for hi-jacking your thread
Hopefully some of this is useful to you too

Have rewards and punishments.

Rewards should involve your attention.

Punishments should involve the removal of electronic equipment. Take the laptops. Then bedroom tvs. Then if things don't improve, isolate. We used stairs, I'm afraid. Give clear warnings and act on them. 'If I hear you scream one more time...'

Silverymoon no problem, of course it's all useful.

Having a slightly better day so far. This morning we went for a walk to blow the cobwebs away. Even though DD1 sulked for most of it and DS and DD2 fought almost the whole way about everything, I was still glad we did it and I felt better for getting some fresh air. I do think even a short walk changes the atmosphere and we've even had a bit of nice playing since we came in.

I've been thinking about the reasons/triggers. It's the combination of kids I think. Individually they are all ok, still strong characters but manageable and even fun. But they all seem to have their own issues with each other. DD1 at the moment constantly tells me she wishes she was an only child. She complains all the time that I won't do things with only her, without the other 2. I do make time for her but it's impossible when DH is at work and she knows that, she just tries the guilt trip anyway. Then she cuts off her nose to spite her face and sulks in her room instead of joining in with the rest of us. DS has always been mega-jealous of DD2 and seems to spend his lfe trying to make her cry. DD2 is not an angel either though - she knows what winds up both of the older ones and uses that knowledge until they explode, then she wails loudly and runs to me. This cycle is repeated about a million times a day.

One-to-one time works so much better than family time but it's obviously not always possible and we need to be able to have family time too.

With the punishment thing, I think it depends on the child as others have said. My girls don't like me being cross with them, but DS really couldn't care less. He has such an explosive temper too, anything can happen when he gets angry.

op - my DS has quite a temper, too. It got so bad when he was around 5 I contacted ParentLine in desperation ( had no internet access then so no MN ). They gave me some fantastic advice, which we still use now.

In essence, they recommended anger management techniques, like counting to ten and visualisation. Both these techniques have really helped DS and now he is 7 understands the impact of his lack of impulse control. The upside, of course, is that he's a passionate person and a joy to be around. He's very emotionally intelligent when it comes to others too. But Oh! that temper! It needs work.

It sounds to me like you're doing a good job and that you really care. Any family with 3 strong minded children is never going to be all sunshine and roses. Its a myth.

Thanks taffeta for the supportive words! My DS is also 7 and I think, looking back, he is more in control now. He sounds very similar to yours actually, and can be lovely, especially on his own! He can have phases of relative calm for weeks at a time, then we'll have a really angry phase with meltdowns every day, and I don't really know why. When he's calm we can talk about why he gets angry and what he can do about it, and he's very perceptive. But when something sets him off he can't seem to think straight. He will shout insults and deliberately destroy things. He gets angry at me if I don't let him do something he wants, or withdraw a privelege because of his behaviour. These I can sort of understand. But sometimes he loses it over things like having to give his sister a turn at something (even, like today, a turn with HER OWN skates!). He understands of course about sharing and can do this no problem with friends, but sisters are obviously different and he seems to sort of regress.

feellikerunning I have so much sympathy for you...

I have just utterly exploded with my 2 DD's (5 and 6) they have done nothing but fight and whine since they broke up from school.

I try very hard to be calm and consistent, but it's like torture when they're together and it's been even worse than usual over the last few days, constant noise and conflict.

We were supposed to be going sledging but they bickered and whined so much I just lost my temper, screamed until I was purple in the face and have brought then home.

I feel so defeated and depressed now, I've lost control, they're still screeching and shouting albeit in their bedrooms. I just want to run away from it all - even going back to work seems inviting.

At least they do behave well for other people! I think this shows they do know how they are supposed to behave, and that you are doing a good job. If they didn't behave for other people/when out etc then I think I would worry more. However, my Lo is only 6mo, so have a fair way to go yet - as a teacher, though, you can tell the kids who have been disciplined, and are a bit naughty sometimes, and those who just haven't been disciplined ever and are truly awful with no boundaries or sense of normal behaviour or manners at all.

chocolatesanta that all sounds really familiar, I think going back to work could be a good idea too. I hear people saying they love the relaxation of the holidays, well, I certainly prefer them being away part of the day!

We have moments of how I imagined it to be before I had them (usually when they're all occupied separately and happily), and I remind myself that this is it, this is the time I will look back on when I brought up my family. But most of the time I can't see the wood for the trees.

haggisfish they do mostly behave for other people and at school, which I am very glad about! It's at home and with each other that we can't seem to cope.