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Original poster

There is ONE muslim boy in my sons preschool.

64 replies

QuintessentialShadows · 09/12/2010 21:21

In my sons preschool class, there are only 4 5 year old boys, and this boy is one of them. His family is from Morocco, and they have lived in Norway for over 20 years. They speak fluent Norwegian. My son is friendly with this boy, and wants to do playdates with him.

I am on speaking terms with his mum, she is really nice and friendly.

He has turned down every birthday party invitation. And I did invite him to my sons halloween party, as I did not want him to feel excluded, though I had a suspicion that he would not come. His mum was good about that, explained that as a muslim family they did not really celebrate halloween, but said she was pleased her son was asked.

I dont want to offend, or be pushy.
The boy is currently unwell, but I had my sons other two friends home with me.

The preschool teacher pulled me up on this, saying I had to bear in mind there are 4 boys in his group, so should not really leave one out on a group playdate, so could I either please just ask ONE other boy at the time, or all, as it was sad for the child left out. It was all hypothetical, as the boy wasnt there.

So.....

Is there anything in particular I should bear in mind?
I was hoping to make an invite for next week. I reckon I will make a chicken and rice dish (rather than bangers and mash or lasagna). But what else?

Everything was so much more "integrated" in London.

OP posts:
Original poster
QuintessentialShadows · 10/12/2010 08:35

Thanks, lots of interesting comments.
I think maybe just a simple tasty tomato based penne would be the way to go. I get the point about no meat. We like to eat a diet rich in fish and veg, so it would not be a problem to serve a tottaly no meat no lard and no gelatine meal!

At the end of the day, boys are boys! Full of energy, and it should not be so much about the food as it should be about boys being able to have fun. Though I do realize I need to bear his familys way of doing things in mind.

OP posts:
purits · 10/12/2010 08:44

"The issue with birthday parties (in my understanding) is that it makes something that is not a religious requirement something that you "have" to do and in the Muslim approach, no ritual that is not religious is a MUST."

Eh?

Secretwishescometrue · 10/12/2010 08:53

Hi I'm Muslim and our dc's won't be going to birthday parties or having them but even in my own family my brother in law has birthday parties for his two boys cause his wives family (who aren't too strict Muslims) they do, so it all depends on the individual... I'm quite sure the family would mean no offence to you just they don't celebrate birthdays themselves either? With her turning down play date invites that could be a family thing too maybe they just don't "do" playdates? Not everyone does... Maybe? I wouldn't be too pushy she may feel embarrassed. Your pre school teacher was out of order though. If she does accept though you would really need to check about the food thing but assume vegetarian imo and yep having a small plastic jug in the bathroom would be very good but I still have to do the butt wash bit for my ds 4.3 (he's in charge of all the wiping just doesn't want to do the water bit yet...) anyways hope it all goes well, you sound like a very nice person :)

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wannabeglam · 10/12/2010 09:06

As the little boy was away from school, I think the teacher was out of order.

I think you should talk to the mother when you invite the little boy over, and maybe invite her too so you can have a social chat and get to know her better.

gorionine · 10/12/2010 09:46

Sorry purits, I am not often good at conveing my thoughts. I mean there are things in Islam like Eid for example thar are to be celebrated. Birthday can be marked but making the bitrhday paty a compulsery act is not accepted as it is not religiously compulsary IYSWIM It is not seen as acceptable to add rituals that are not compulsary.(Not sure you will understand any better as I only understand myself very seldomlySmile)

sneakapeak · 10/12/2010 10:02

Sorry but I don't think you need to jump through hoops for this boy to be included.

It sounds as though they are strict Muslims therefore have no plans to intergrate as they have taken up no invites so far and clearly never invited any boys home to their house.

Maybe the teacher doesn't realise how many times this boy HAS been invited and refused?

Id just be mentioning to his mum when you are doing something and my guess is there will be no need for you to worry about his dietry needs, she will carry on refusing.

purits · 10/12/2010 10:24

Sorry gorionine, I still don't understand.
It is a social, friendly invitation to come and have fun with your mates.
What's all this talk about MUST and compulsion?Confused

cumbria81 · 10/12/2010 10:50

Hi

Perhaps an ignorant question, but what is the deal with the washing? Is special water needed?

kittens · 10/12/2010 10:58

I would ask the mum, with food make it veggie as its a safe bet, or if the mum is very particular you could ask her if she would like to suggest what you could make or send a packed lunch.

You think Muslims are bad my daughter has Plymouth Bretheren children in her class, those rules are hard to understand.

twirlymum · 10/12/2010 11:02

I know I'm going to get jumped on for this, but this is why I don't like any religion.
So many rules and regulations, for CHILDREN!

Original poster
QuintessentialShadows · 10/12/2010 11:06

Well, we have friends from Mongolia where religion is banned, and they are much bemused by the very concept. Grin

OP posts:
Secretwishescometrue · 10/12/2010 11:55

Religion is banned in Mongolia?! Wow never knew that. I'd hate that, each to their own I say... The washing thing is just Muslims have to rinse after using the toilet that's all, no special water just water Grin like my boys can dip their hand under the tap and give a little wipe when its just a wee but when they go for a poo tis a bit of a manoeuvre to rinse properly like with a jug of water or cup or whatever so id say most parents still help out at this age and I know mums who just supply wet wipes for pre school as it could be a bit messy if dc went to tackle a jug of water... Sorry long winded reply to simple is it special water Blush

Original poster
QuintessentialShadows · 10/12/2010 11:59

So toilet paper wont do?

OP posts:
Wintersun · 10/12/2010 12:19

There is nothing in Islam that suggests that you shouldn't celebrate birthdays. In fact, Islam supports the celebration of birthdays as its an opportunity to be thankful for blessings.
In fact the Prophet (pbuh) fasted on Mondays as it was the day he was born. This is usually cited as an example of marking days that are significant to us but that don't have any religious significance.
This recent stance of Muslims encouraged to avoid birthday celebrations is just another way to push a divisive Islam. Its so wrong.

Wintersun · 10/12/2010 12:28

Sorry Quint, I know this wasn't what your thread was about but I just got a bit annoyed Smile

Original poster
QuintessentialShadows · 10/12/2010 12:29

not at all, I dont mind! Smile
I know so very little about Islam, it is a great opportunity to learn more.

OP posts:
Firawla · 10/12/2010 13:00

Maybe if you get a chance to speak to the mum then just ask her about the birthday parties? some muslims do not celebrates birthdays @ all and wouldn't let their children attend (reasoning being we are only allowed to celebrate eid, so anything else is an innovation or copying off other cultures, which is like what gorionline was explaining. some people take this to understand birthdays as haram)
but i hope people wouldn't presume that all muslims never want to come to their bday parties as i would be quite gutted if my boys never got invited due to people presuming that. i would be happy for mine to go.
however if you ask her, then you will know and can continue as appropriate either by not inviting if she tells you that they dont do birthdays or invite if there was a reason for him not coming before but actually they are okay with birthdays
im pretty sure that she wouldn't mind you asking, if they dont do bdays she will just probably explain you a bit about her reason why?

daddydaycare51 · 10/12/2010 13:27

Hi quintessentialshadows My children attend a very multi cultural primary school and they have many asian friends who they have invited to our hse. Yes tbh you do have to be careful with what you offer the children. They have been invited and attended my childrens birthday parties , I tend to do Jam , Tuna , egg sandwhiches also cakes ,crisps the usual but No meat as my own children are picky about types of meat they eat anyway. Its all just the things children like to eat anyway and I have never ever had any problems with any of the parents , and I do know and talk to them daily. Also as for the teacher why on earth is she getting involved in your private party for your son, she should just stick to school policies and stay away from peoples home, life UNLESS it is affecting schooling.
Also children up to a certain age do not have to pray all the time I'm not sure at what age it does become neccesary for them but it is definately older than 5.
One last thing I do ask each parent as to what they would not want thier child to eat and they like and respect the fact that you have taken the time to ask them.
This is only my personal experience ok

littleducks · 10/12/2010 13:34

I think sneakapeak is wrong o assume the family dont want to integrate just because they havent accepted an invitation to a birthday party yet.

DD is four and im not really encouraging playdates and birthday parties yet, she is knackered enough from attending school and i dont really want it to eat in to 'family time' at the weekend, and i figure there will be years of facilitating her social life to come.

I realise you may think im nuts but my decision is not based on religion at all.

Re the washing on the toilet thing, it is true that muslim kids are used to being washed but if they are attending preschool or school when this facilities arent provided then they will normally have a strategy to cope with that just fine. I dont think it is something you need to worry about.

I expect the mum would be embarassed to think she was causing you to worry.

partyhats · 10/12/2010 15:15

I think your question has already been answered but just to add my two pence worth, you don't need to worry about the washing after the toilet, I think his mum will know that she needs to clean him when he gets home, she would'nt expect you to make special provision for this.
Best to serve vegetarian food or fish. I think given that the family are strict about not celebrating birthdays, they are unlikely to eat non halal.
At age 4/5 no need to pray, that is not a requirement until he is much older.

sarah293 · 10/12/2010 15:24

This reply has been deleted

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PussinJimmyChoos · 10/12/2010 16:36

The washing with water thing is related to being clean - which is a requirement of prayer. Although children don't pray at a young age, the washing with water starts young so they can get used to it and develop good bathroom hygiene. I've got a mini hose pipe next to my loo and its lovely to have a schoosh with it - keeps you much fresher. DS is a bit wary of it so we only use it from time to time with him so as not to push it and make him go off it

DS doesn't wash with water at school as he just wouldn't manage it nor do I give him moist wipes, as much as I would like to because he's just too young. I just check him every day when he gets home and clean him again if he needs it

As for the birthdays, it does seem rather varied depending on the families. I'm pretty relaxed with it tbh as DS always has fun when he goes and it means he's not left out when they are all talking about it in school the next week iyswim but then again, I'm a convert to Islam and have had birthdays all my life so I find it hard to give up. I must do some research into this to be honest - so many varied approaches to the whole subject!!!

purits · 10/12/2010 16:54

"some muslims do not celebrates birthdays @ all and wouldn't let their children attend (reasoning being we are only allowed to celebrate eid, so anything else is an innovation or copying off other cultures)

wtf?
What is wrong with innovation?
What is wrong with adopting other cultures? I thought we Brits were supposed to be proud of our ability to integrate new customs and were open to new ideas.
So if I had a party to celebrate passing my exams or had a housewarming then you wouldn't come because it's un-islamic to have have fun?

I repeat: wtf?

PussinJimmyChoos · 10/12/2010 17:16

No no no...its not like that

Its more like its not good to copy other customs, but rather retain the celebrations related to Islam - that's all. Nothing as serious as you make it out!

We have lots of fun with our gatherings and no booze required to lubricate the chat!

Karoleann · 10/12/2010 17:39

Hi always do pasta with tomato sauce, cheese, salad (cucumber and tomatoes)&bread when DS1's muslim friend comes round.
I think you're quite brave having 4 5 year olds round!