Really scared I'll always feel this way..

[natsyloo]

...I have posted a couple of times re: PND so apologies for the broken record but with a 4 month old DS I'm really concerned about not really feeling noticeably better, having started takin ADs at 8wks and doing everything possible to alleviate symptoms.

My DS is a pretty challenging baby who cries relentlessly (and scarily loudly!) which I find particularly stressful and sometimes embarrassing at social events where other babies are seemingly calm.

I'm still able to 'function' as if I am a happy go lucky mum, going out lots, meeting other mums, doing exercise etc but my underlying feeling is just one of being a bit of a fraud as I'm not enjoying this and am really sad to say it feels like I've made a major mistake.

The most painful element of it all is the remote feeling from my DS - I've always been a real baby mad gal, cooing at babies on the bus etc but I just feel so detached from my own DS as if he belongs to someone else. When I do check myself and realise he's mine I get this really scary wave of fear that I'm trapped and there's nothing I can do.

Really sorry for the rant and self indulgence but I could really use some reassurance that these distressing thoughts and feelings will pass. I've really fought for CBT but am told the waiting list is at least 16 weeks - when I'll be back at work!

Rationally I know there's a light at the end of the tunnel but right now it's quite hard to believe.

I'd really welcome reassurance/advice from other mums who have been/ are going through this too.

just been to GP and been advised to wait a fortnight after stopping bfing to allow hormones to settle before considering changing ADs. i'm ok with that as have had a couple of good days this week despite the dips.

Was given a quote for private CBT at £115 an hour. Blimey, is that the going rate? i'm in the wrong job if so. does anyone have any comparative costs so i can see if it's feasible to go down this route?

Hi Natsyloo, I'm joining this a bit late but just wanted to add my voice to everyone else's and offer you hope that there's light at the end of the tunnel. In answer to your question first I think that is about the going rate for private CBT - I was shocked too. I simply can't afford that and ended up on a NHS waiting list - it took 5 months to reach the top of it and I've got my first appointment next week so I don't know yet how helpful it'll be. ADs have helped me enormously though and it took a couple of goes before I found ones that worked (and didn't give me sleep disturbance). Hopefully you will too.

More generally ... I could have written your post a year ago. My DD was a very difficult baby and always seemed so different to everyone else's as she cried so much. I remember going to a mother and baby post natal fitness class when she was about 3 months old. 19 of the babies sat happily in their bouncy chairs watching the class. Mine screamed her head off the whole time. I didn't go back! We had her checked for reflux but it wasn't that. I think she just got very overtired and took a long time to learn how to send herself to sleep. Anyway I felt like you - that I'd made a terrible terrible mistake - and quite honestly there were times I wanted to give her back. She also had some hip problems which made life a bit more challenging (but I don't think they were responsible for the crying). Anyway, fast forward to now. My DD is almost 21 months old and I cannot believe how amazing she is and how much I love her. Things started to improve around 5-6 months as the crying tailed off but it was really around 12 months that I genuinely started to enjoy being a mother. Now every day is a joy. She is starting to put words together in sentences and every now and again will come out with "mummy, kiss" or "mummy, hug" or (bizarrely) this morning "[DD] want more things" (??!) I've been back at work part time (in a job I love) for a while now and while initially I enjoyed the break from DD, now I am starting to think she is so adorable that I could happily be a SAHM. None of this would I have thought was even remotely possible when I was at your stage. I'm not even sure anyone telling me this would have helped me at the time, but I thought I would share it with you just in case it does. You are very very unikely to feel this way several months down the line once your LO starts giving a bit more back and becomes less screamy.

Take care and keep posting.

I really sympathise. My DS is 8 weeks and I am going to the docs on Fri as feeling so shite. I can't sleep. DS sleeps for 9 hours a night but I just lie there in a state of high anxiety. I believe everyone who says it gets better and I'm sure you'll get through it. I think sleep deprivation plays a big part - if I've slept more than 5 hours then I'm OK.

Thanks for the posts - i can't tell you how lovely it is receiving support and positive messages. MN really is amazing - feel a bit evangelical about it and was singing its praises to my GP as a tonic for PND.

the good news is i have a fab dr who has managed to bump me up the waiting list for CBT and i have an app next week which am really pleased about.

honeybee79 you're right to go to the docs and seek help -it's the first major step and i hope you feel brighter soon.

drcosytiger - really thoughtful of you to share your story and yes it does make me feel better. thanks for that.

just wanted to say i've had my debut cbt session today of a series of eight. i've started to feel brighter and more hopeful about the future.

wanted to say a BIG thankyou to you all for your lovely words of support. i know there is still some way to go, but coming on MN,being able to talk so openly and having kind and comforting messages has really made a massive difference for me.

Hi Natsy, that's great, I'm so pleased. I have my first session next week (my DD is 20 months old but I was a bit less organised at getting help than you!) Keep posting if it all gets too much again and try and keep in mind that it gets sooooooo much better. You have so much to look forward to.

thanks drcosytiger i think cbt will be beneficial..not sure about you but i sometimes have unhealthy thought patterns which have prompted the low moods so it's helpful to look at the roots of this rather than simply treating the symptoms (though ads do of course have their place).

good luck for next week and thanks again.

feel a bit disappointed today - i had a series of about 4 or 5 good days where i managed to convince myself i was well on the way to recovery and have since had a couple of less positive days. i find it really hard to be patient with myself and while i rationally understand this is a bit of a game of snakes and ladders, it can be frustrating when you seemingly take backward steps.

does anyone have any sound advice on how to handle the yo yo effect?

Hi Natsy, I was like this too for a long time. It's so frustrating isn't it? I have to say that the ADs definitely helped to iron out the dips, once I found the right ones. But otherwise, just try and be kind to yourself. When you're having a bad day just aim to get through it and give yourself a little reward when you do (as you will - time will pass even if it's hard!) Read a book, have a bath, eat chocolate. And keep telling yourself tomorrow is another day and things won't always be bad. In other words, try and lower your expectations. Recognise you are recovering from being unwell and treat yourself kindly. And - if you can - try and get out as time will pass quicker. Although I know that's hard with a screamy one, I've been there. Hope that didn't all sound too airy fairy! Most of all, remember you're not alone, loads of us have been through this and come out the other side.

Thanks DrCosyTiger - it's good to know I'm not alone in dealing with the rollercoaster that is PND. Lowering expectations is a major thing for me - I've realised through starting my CBT that it's a contributory factor.

I've made some progress setting up my PND group too which is good. A bunch of mums are meeting in Jan to talk about how we want the group to be and I'm also looking into applying for a grant so we can perhaps have 'treat' sessions like massage/reiki etc to make mums feel a bit better. I've been to too many groups where it's all about the babies and the mums don't even get offered a cup of tea even though we're totally frazzled and running on empty!

Enough of the tangent, thanks again.

Oh Natsyloo I so completely know how you feel - my son is now 2 but when he was little I felt exactly the same. It wasn't til he was 11 weeks that I looked at him and felt anything other than sheer desperation. And it wasn't until he was at least 6 months that I finally had a day when I at one point got bored - something friends had been complaining about from a few weeks old - I'd just been so utterly miserable and stressed the idea of being bored was completely alien.

I wanted to punch every single person who said this to me at the time - but I'm about to say it to you: it gets better. It really does. It doesn't necessarily get amazing all the time (I still have days I'd like to give him back)- but you learn to muddle along, and the more like people and less like babies they become the more fun it is.

I haven't read the whole thread (sorry) - but things I would recommend are:
HELP - if you can afford to pay someone for even just an hour or two so you can have a bath/nap/walk/whatever then do it - you will never regret the money spent.
TIME OUT - even if you can't pay for help, call on relatives/friends to let you (and partner) have some time away - we found going out for a long lunch and movie brilliant (though didn't cotton on to this until he was about 6 months! and never went out in the evening, as too tired because he never slept)
MUMSNET - I'm not being kissass - no-one I met in the flesh ever admitted to feeling the way I did at the time - yet now everyone I meet with a toddler says they felt those things (though possibly not quite as continuously or for so long) - Mumsnet was a lifeline then for support.

GOOD LUCK! - Let us know how you go
xxx

Thanks hodgepodge - v kind of you to share your story. I know what you mean re: people saying it will get better, but at the same time the fact everyone says it must mean it rings true! I look forward to the day I can say it to someone else.

Thanks for the advice - and I agree with you on all fronts esp the kissass ref...don't know what I'd do without MN as such an instant support network. Not to be underestimated :)

eek - it's sleep deprivation central here as ds has decided he'll wake up pretty much every hour through the night...think he may be teething.

i think it's exacerbated my pnd and i feel like am in a proper daze. trying to get rest where poss but can't quite catch up.

still, my folks are coming over to look after ds for a bit tomorrow while i have my cbt which should be some respite. crikey - just when you think you're on the up!

Oh Natsy, hang on in there. If there's one thing that makes PND a million times worse it is lack of sleep. You will survive this and your DS will sleep again. Repeat to self "this will pass" x 100! Is there any chance you could have a little nap before or after CBT? Thinking of you ...

thanks drcosy - it definitely magnifies my anxiety and low mood. my mum and dad are pretty understanding so hopefully will give me a bit of a break.

just feel a bit like am running on empty which i know is part and parcel of motherhood. been to a family xmas party this aft which did lighten my mood but also made me feel a bit weird when everyone was gushing over ds and i felt so distanced from him.

also, scary moment when my mum asked in front of cousins and lots of family what time to come over tomorrow. my cousin piped up, "where are you going?" i said "nowhere special - just the drs." mum went and added "oh yes, she has to be very closely monitored with her situation."

i'm not ashamed to have pnd but it's not great when all eyes are on you and you have a major aunt sally face

...on the back of my last post i was wondering how many of mums out there who have/had pnd told family and friends?

i've been fairly open about it but it is interesting sometimes seeing people's responses. i think some people just don't know what to say.

i was talking to the health visitors at my local baby clinic about a health scare we had with ds when he had a bowel condition a few weeks ago and needed an emergency procedure. i breezily remarked "as if that wasn't hard enough i have pnd too so the stress and lack of sleep has been double hard." they were just silent as if i'd been a bit brazen with the use of the word pnd in a public forum!

Have to say I've been very selective in who I've told. My sister knows, and my DH obviously, plus a few close friends. But my dad doesn't (he's ill himself, don't want to worry him), neither do my PILs (they would just flap and drive me mad) but it's easy for me not to tell them as I live at the opposite end of the country. No one at work knows. I feel like I should tell people but I just haven't wanted to. I know it's important to lessen the stigma and all that but I am not up to being the poster girl for PND. Actually far more people on mumsnet know than in RL!

How are you today Natsy? Did CBT go well? Have you managed to get some sleep?

drcosy i don't think there's anything wrong with not telling people - there's no right or wrong way to do it. tbh i'm a bit of an over-sharer so wear my heart on my sleeve which is prob a bit tedious for other people!

today was mixed - my mum made some off-hand quip about not understanding why i hadn't got to grips with motherhood which made me blink back the tears a bit.

cbt was interesting - quite hard in that it's so factual and scientific when i have a tendency to get dramatic and emotional. i had to talk about the key things i wanted to get out of it and weirdly was diappointed when she flatly said she couldn't promise me that i would grow to have a loving relationship wit my son (which is my major irrational fear). for some reason that floored me - when how can i expect someone else to promise me that?

i guess the thinking is that improving self-esteem, mood and challenging thoughts will make me happier and the rest will happen naturally. guess i'll have to learn to trust in that.

how are you doing?

You know what Natsy, I am so confident that I will promise you that you will grow to love your DS and form a wonderful bond with him. I'm not surprised you haven't done yet. Screamy babies are really really tough to love, I know, I had one. But toddlers are so cute and loving they are impossible not to bond with. The day will come when your little one says "mummy is my best friend" as mine did this morning. How could you not love that?

I'm very interested in your CBT. I have my first session on Thurs. I'm actually doing fine now but the anxiety is still a problem, I worry especially about taking DD to new environments, probably a hangover from when she used to scream the place down wherever we went. She doesn't anymore (see - it does end!) but irrationally I keep expecting her to. I need to get out of that mindset as we are doing lots of travelling over Christmas and New Year.

Hi DrCosy - thanks for your post. You know what, I believe you too because I went out to my work xmas do yesterday and it's the longest I've been away from my DS. I felt a bit yucky and wobbly to start in such an alien adult (!) environment but I ended up having a lovely time and getting into the swing of things.

And you know the loveliest thing...I drove home looking forward to seeing my DS and my heart melted a little when he smiled at me when I came in. That was such a good moment amidst the craziness of PND.

As for CBT, I think I will get lots from it. My therapist is v matter of fact and unemotional (as she should be) which can be tough when you're in the session but it so incredibly rational that it brings your issues down to size. It will take time and lots of work but I think we'll get there.

Good luck on Thursday - let me know how you get on.

I felt terribly lonely, depressed, and isolated with my first baby. I thought I was going to feel like that forever, but I got over it and I didn't have those feelings at all with my following 2 babies.

Can you try wearing your baby to get him to stop crying? I used wraps with my 2nd and my current babies. I wish I had known about them with my first. My worn babies just didn't cry, although they kept me up all hours of the day and night walking them around. But it's a lot easier walking a baby around than listening to one cry.

I hope it gets better for you. That sense of isolation is a killer.

Is anyone else experiencing the mid-xmas low? I always find the no-man's
-land between xmas and NYE a bit
funny. plus, the prospect of dh returning to work on wed is a bit daunting.

at the moment trying to distract myself with bad tv and chocs! any other tips on getting through the post-xmas period?

Hey natsyloo been watching your thread for a while and thought I'd come and say hi. I've just started to heave myself properly out of my own pnd mire myself, and it's a bastard! Most days I would say I'm pretty good actually, about 5 days out of 7. Not bad considering last month I was sat in my car in the drive staring at the garage where the spirits were being kept for Xmas. I was quite genuinely considering getting some Dutch courage and taking the car out to a lonely road and wrapping myself round a tree. I feel sick thinking about it now, and a bit embarrassed because my ds (11 weeks) for the most part is brilliant and sleeps well. I don't think it matters really what your baby is like; I think if your balance if hormones isn't right then that's it. Not your fault. I had no family support within miles and my parents offered no help. In the end, I rang up an auntie I've not seen in ages and begged for her help.

I drove ds and I 3 hours away to stay with them for a couple of weeks whilst I got my head sorted out. It also gave dh some space because I think I was pretty hard going for a while there! My auntie was a star, an absolute star. She pretty much took him off my hands for a while whilst I went shopping, for a walk, anything and everything and after a few days I'd done everything I felt like and wanted to be with ds again by choice. She helped me see that he's not actually that bad crying-wise and got me to time his crying; it really put it into perspective for me. DH popped up to see us at the weekend and she babysat for us whilst we went out for a meal and some drinks. She even took him into her room and sorted him when he woke up and did his first feed in the morning. She loved having a baby in the house, dh and I spent time together, and I slept again.

I'm not completely better, but I'm getting there. And im combating the weird new year feeling by booking myself into a couple of groups and organising to go up to my aunties house again, so I've got something to work towards. Sometimes I find it's the company when dh is at work.

The most unlikely people help you, is what I've found since having ds. The most unlikely people come to your aid, all you have to do is ask. When my best friend in rl has her baby, I will do the same for her. She doesn't know it yet, and I haven't told her. But I will help. If it means taking her baby for a few days into my house, then I will because I know what that does for you!

Our mums had it so much easier I think; people tended to be closer knit within families and your mother would help you for a while because she probably lived closer. Peoples neighbours and sisters all helped even if it was just popping in to char. They kept our mums in hospital for 2 weeks after the birth to convalesce. You learned how to take care of your baby, they helped you recover: I'm not saying it was perfect but they didn't just boot you out the delivery suite after 3 hours with a teeny screaming bundle and expect you to get on with it. I think these factors combined helped a lot more women stave off pnd. I think a lot of it these days is circumstantial as well.

Hi JazzyJeff (great name btw). Thanks for your post - I think you're absolutely right about the lack of support we get nowadays.

My folks are nice but I already feel like I'm asking a lot of them to mind my DS while I go for CBT for just an hour a week! My MIL and family live well over an hour away so that's out of the question. You're right about realising who friends are and help sometimes coming from the least obvious places. My neighbour has been a star for babysitting and allowing my DH and I to get some time out - her children are grown up so she loves spending time with DS, whom she has affectionately refers to as 'little treasure'.

Glad things are getting better for you - the road to recovery can sometimes feel a long one can't it, but it's nice to be heading in the right direction. We're weaning DS at the moment which is quite fun - he's just debuted on banana but the jollyness came to an abrupt end when the dog looked me in the eye and weed on the carpet - AGAIN. Dealing with a needy dog is the last thing I need at the moment!!

Heading out now for some fresh air and to maybe peruse the sale items. hurrah.

Happy new year to everyone on MN. We had a nice xmas and new year but I've got the January feeling right now. Boo.

Have felt alright these past few weeks but feel a dip coming on - perhaps as I don't have any nice plans to look forward to. It also sparks the cycle of negative thoughts re: not getting better and always feeling low :(

This was heightened somewhat when talking to NCT mummies about second babies. They are already planning their next babas and it makes me have a major panic as I still feel pretty wobbly after DS1 arrived 5 months ago. I always dreamed of having 2 children (I know we're not all lucky enough to plan our lives so exactly), but I'm really not sure I could go through this again.

Are there any fellow PND sufferers who have had more that one child and, if so, how did you overcome the fear of it happening all over again?

I realise I'm jumping the gun here as I need to focus on getting better and would like to enjoy my lovely DS before even contemplating anything else.