Proposal for unconditional parenting discussions - this is not a normal thread but a MN proposal!

[Simic]

This is more a mumsnet question. It seems to be a common thing in several threads, that people who are interested in unconditional parenting want to discuss particular aspects of it, but other people get annoyed by these discussions.
I wonder if it would be more appropriate for us to raise our UP questions under "Books, Adult non-fiction" rather than under "Parenting"???
Everyone interested in UP would need somehow to know where to look.
But, I think there are quite a few of us who know where we want to go with parenting, think UP describes our goal reasonably well, but are muddling through trying to find out how to get there.
Maybe, it would be a good idea to classify the posts as a discussion of the book (and related books/ideas) rather than as general "parenting", as it seems that a lot of people stumble onto the posts in "parenting" and just get annoyed by it and the discussion that ensues is not really helpful for anyone.

What do people think of this idea???

Why not set up a "safe" thread in Parenting for the UP discussions, making it clear it's not about arguing the pros and cons of the particular parenting style? Rather like those using GF?

Gifted and Talented also has this problem

I don't know.

I was going to post 'what about the people who don't know about UP?' but then realised that the thread that encouraged me to read the book was in Adult non-fiction anyway. (is this bollocks or for real)

I am still not sure it would solve the problem. (Your recent thread and the other one were quite clear that they wanted advice/support from people who follow the theory.)

I remember vaguely that on the bollocks or for real thread, there was some input from people who hadn't read the book and had no intention of reading but still wanted to say what they thought of the ideas in the book.

Then again, perhaps by posting in Adult non fiction it would be easier to say 'Look this thread is for people who have read the book or are thinking of reading it'...

There was a 'UP support thread' at one time. I can't remember if it 'annoyed' other people. No time to reread it now.

I'll probably check both topics from now on.

What is a "safe" thread? How do you do that?
Thanks for the tip, btw

Nothing technical, just call it:

"Safe support thread for those following Unconditional Parenting ideas"

then request politely but firmly in the first post that those who disagree with the style please feel free to express negative opinions in other threads, thanks.

It obviously won't physically prevent nay-sayers from posting, but hopefully MNers will respect that this isn't the place for debating UP per se....

Worth a try..?

Simic, I think what InmaculadaConcepcion means by a "safe" thread, is just one created for the sole purpose of those following a certain 'style' (for want of a better word).

It's made clear in the title/first post, that it is a thread for those following UP and wanting advice and support from fellow UP'ers, not one for general discussion on what UP is/isn't.

Contrastly, I suppose there can be a separate thread set up for those who wish to argue the merits of UP...?

Happy to set one/both up?

I think that desperately trying to avoid any confrontation, even constructive confrontation, by any means necessary, is exactly what unconditional parenting is all about. So it's probably a good idea to move your threads to where no dissenting opinions will ever be heard.

tillymama, in this case, we think as one!

I think that discussion can be helpful, especially on smaller points rather than the blanket arguments people seem to come up with when they haven't even bothered to read about it. Or if someone hasn't come across it before and is interested, I think parenting is a good place for it. I also think it's easy enough to avoid by putting a disclaimer in the OP along the lines of "I don't wish to have a debate about UP, just some advice in the spirit of it. Please start another thread if you wish to argue about it."

This was the long running thread on UP (etc)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/parenting/759679-How-to-Talk-so-Kids-Will-Listen-Unconditional-Parenting-TCS

Can't you email each other or make a fb group? A message board really isn't the right place to chat to people without anyone else abel to join in.

lol colditz.

Unconditional parenting being discussed in the book section does seem entirely appropriate in a way. Cements the fact that it sounds so very lovely in theory to forego telling it like it is when children are playing up. But that in practice no one knows htf to cope once their child hits a hellion patch and saying "HOW VERY DARE YOU, STOP THAT RIGHT NOW!" is verbotten.

Pointydog...anyone is welcome to join in!

I think what Simic is getting at is that it can be difficult on thread where people have put up a thread entitled "I've got a problem I need help resolving using UP" and you only get a couple of useful replies before it descends into a debate over the pro's and con's of UP.

I don't think anyone who follows UP is adverse to a lighthearted debate on the subject. But equally, it's a bit hard to be offer helpful advice to other people when your responses are picked apart by others who think UP is a load of waffle.

Different strokes for different folks.

I wouldn't wade on to a Gina Ford thread offering UP wisdom, because I know it would be well received and has no relevance on such a thread. I imagine it would the same the other way around?

Colditz the point is that we're not asking for opinions about whether UP works or not, but we still get them on these threads, and often phrased quite aggressively. It's just not helpful ? we're hardly going to think "Oh, NOW I see the error of my ways ? time to bin my Alfie Kohn book!" when faced with confrontation, are we?

It's happened to me too in the past ? have deliberately put "asking for advice from UP parents" or whatever, in the thread title and still been told my parenting is "ridiculous".

And it's extremely frustrating as few of the detractors have ever actually read the book, have often genuinely grasped the wrong end of the stick, and so are mis-arguing! It drives me nuts when people think UP parenting is about letting kids do what the hell they want.

It's like a trainspotter (bear with me!) asking for opinions about the best kind of track to buy and being told "Trains are crap! Get some model aeroplanes instead!"

Anyway, the safe thread is a great idea!

You get opinions on your threads because you're posting them in a public forum. Just like if someone posted "I want opinions from pro-smacking people only" - they WOULD get responses disapproving of smacking. (And yes, yes I am making UP analogous to smacking because I personally believe it is about as effective)

An invitation only facebook group might suit your purposes better.

Attachment parenting isn't the same as unconditional parenting - one of them (again, IMO) is about meeting a small child's needs, and the other is about meeting the parent's need for not causing a scene or tears or any upset whatsoever. I was quite attachmenty when my children were small, because I think (AGAIN< my OPINION) that it's cruel to leave tiny abies crying when they need to be cuddled, but my responses to behavior are not unconditional - I do not respond with neutrality when my children are deliberatly sticking cucumber to the walls, for example.

put it in Off The Beaten Track then it won't come up in Active Convos.
if you do that, and call it a safe thread in the title, I doubt you'll get many anti-UP people wandering in.

I think you'll just annoy people by putting it in Adult non-fiction tbh - they'll wander in by accident, post 'Why is this in Books?' and get drawn into the discussion.

There are LOTS of threads where like minded people can go, but they are not going to stay all about the loveliness of UP because other people disagree and will tell you so. If you want a thread where you can discuss Up with no dissent, you need a closed thread. You either have it out there for all to see, or you have it private. You can't have both.

Jeez, safe? safe from what?

Dissent? Confrontation? Disagreement? Being asked awkward questions about how to put Up into practice when you have 2 kids, one ADHD and one just plain stroppy?

look here - this might help

Because I'm not always an inflammatory wanker.

I have read and posted on a fair amount of OP threads. Usually I don't mind the input from people who don't think this is the best way to parent.

Yesterday it bothered me. Perhaps because I am getting sick of it. But I think it was more about the tone of the critical posts.

Colditz, I know you don't think UP is the best way, but I can't remember you ever being rude. (Funny yes, but not rude!)

I didn't know about off the beaten track. Thanks for the link. Not having any particular worries about my parenting ATM so wait to see where others post.

I started the GF/Babywhisperer thread. Everyone who doesn't agree with this way of doing things has been great about leaving us to it.

The thread is here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/parenting/1041506-Safe-thread-for-those-using-Gina-Ford-Babywhisperer-routines?pg=1 with the opening paragraph

"Can we please have a thread dedicated to those wanting or trying to follow some routine, however strict or vague, rather like the attachment parenting thread, so we can encourage one another and get and offer advice without the bunfight that it invariably turns into from people who don't believe it is the way to go?

As I have said elsewhere, parents parent in different ways depending on them and their child (only have one but I imagine it changes a bit for each one) so let's all respect different people's choices.

If you don't 'approve' or 'believe in' routines and things work for you, that is great, but let's leave this for people who want to use some sort of routine.

Thank you."