August Babies

[Katherine]

Wills, Marina, Musica etc I miss us all chatting together. Time to pass on the mum2be moving on thread - so shall we start up again, and anyone else of course.

Still in cloud9 after last night. Poor DH had to spend the morning getting the holiday cottage ready and then I had to go and help him!!!!! But its OK because I feel great. Not even a little bit sore down there. Just these dratted afterpains to contend with - always think this bit is so unfair! You go through all that and get the reward of a lovely baby but the afterpains don't really give you anything do they. Oh well mustn't complain. MW said I'm back to a third already so thats why it hurts so much.

Wills how are those stitches doing? Hope you are not too uncomfy.

Well just changed 3 merconium nappies so no problems with Bea's bowels at all! And the cloth nappies are doing great - just ordered some more girly ones. Even my cloth sanpro is bearing up - much admired by the MWs.

Oh well better go and get the tea ready. Packed DH off to the park with the kids for half and hour for some peace and quiet so just been wallowing in a lovely bath. Time to return to domesticity now

www.mothersbliss.co.uk/shopping/cream.asp

Wills - find yourself a breastfeeding counsellor - health visitors can be a real pain, and are often not very good at helping breastfeeding. It seems like the main problem you are having is with positioning - the others all come from there.

With regards to your main points -

1. if dd is sucking for all that time, and you are sure she is not feeding but just sucking for comfort, there is nothing wrong with using a dummy. Just because it caused problems with dd1 doesn't mean it will with dd2. But if you don't want to use one, don't let your hv pressure you into it. You could try offering dd a clean finger to suck on (since presumably the alternative is your sore nipple).
2. 10-15 mins is very arbitrary - i wouldn't pay too much attention to this. But again, if your dd is taking an age to feed, then you could probably do with improving your positioning - find yourself a b/f counsellor!
3. if you find it too hard to feed in bed, then get out. Worry about dd's nighttime routine when you have got feeding sorted. Your health visitor sounds very autocratic!!!!

Dunno if any of this helps - if you don't know where to find a b/f counsellor then get in touch with the National Childbirth Trust or La Leche League - they are both on the internet, and will be able to put you in touch with someone.

Wills, have got to be really quick, as bedtime for ds calls, but try Born which is a shop in Bristol - they'll post Lansinoh to you. It's under toiletries. I got some at Mothercare World, but haven't seen it in there recently.

Ok I'm going to find a bf counsellor. Oakmaiden we tried offering a finger but then found that dd1 kept shoving one of her rather less than clean ones in dd2's mouth as well so we've had to stop that one. Since dd1 has recently had an attack of worms all I could think of was "oh no!".

Forget your HV, phone the NCT breastfeeding helpline on 0870 444 8708 where you'll get support from trained breastfeeding counsellors.

I found Kamillosan cream pretty good for sore nipples - I think it came from Boots.

Good luck!

Oh wills poor you. Typing with 1 hand here. Echo suggestion of BF councellor. HVs are C**p in my opinion. Yours sounds nutty.

Creams: Have boots got lavender gel? That is very soothing. Its now in their brown botanics range. I nearly missed it when I went looking. Failing that try soaking a breast pad in chamomile tea or water with lavender oil in it.

DD2: Maybe she is pulling off because her mouth is sore. Possible if its thrush. Have you seen your GP just to rule it out. Would also explain why you are so sore. She may be pulling off because it hurts but still hungry hence the marathon feeds.

Bea has a needy time as well (hence one handed typing) - I automatically plug her in as thats what my other 2 always wanted but have now found that she often just wants a cuddle. I'm sure you've tried other things but see if something else will calm her down - or give her to DH.

Personally don't like dummies but there is no harm giving it a go. I was so desperate with DS that I tried it but he didn't want to know.

Got to go now but hang on in there and get some more support. MN is great but you need someone there with you.

Hugs

HV really doesn't sound as if she doesn't know what she's doing.

My dd2 is totally dummydependent but is showing signs of discovering the Joys of Thumbs as dd1 does. We might get some sleep at that point.

I'm so sorry about the boobs.

Wills, have just flashed through here and wanted to mention that I have found both Nelson's (homeopathic) ("rough skin" ) calendula and their own brand at Boots (and our Boots is a v small branch). It is magical stuff and not meant just for feet! (It should say "sore skin" really I think.)

Good luck with the b/f - I remember well the desperate baby and even more desperate older sibling in the evening. Days seem to last about 72 hours at this stage...

PS I would say have the wine. Can't make things worse and might even help (will certainly help you!)

Wills, poor you! I've found Kamillosan helpful, numbs the nips and good for nappy rash too later on. La Leche were a tremendous help to me on the phone & mailing stuff through with helpful pointers. the book Breast is Best (can't remember who it's by, a bit of a tome but loads of detail especially in the troubleshooting chapters on specifics of what to do with soreness etc etc - it's written by a couple of doctors & pulls together all the best research) was lent to me by La Leche group and I've read most of it. my soreness lasted 3 weeks this time, 10 weeks with dd1.
dd1 used a dummy (still does at bedtime, aged 3 plus) from about 9 mths onwards, not interested in it before then. in Germany where my sister in law was living until recently, mothers practically walk up to your child in the street, pull their thumbs out of their mouths & insert dummy. the idea is it has less impact on dentition and is easier to stop them doing it (!) - so there's no shame
keep up the good work, x

wills, I got a lot of help from local la Leche league, on the phone & stuff sent through post. I've borrowed a copy of Breast is Best from them - bit of a tome but written by 2 docs, lots of research backing up their advice. the troubleshooting chapters on eg soreness were terrifically helpful to me. with dd1 soreness (& 3 lots of mastitis) lasted 10 wks - this time only 3 weeks. I used nipple shields when things were toe-curling, plus kamillosan cream which doubles up as a nappy rash cream later on.
dd1 used a dummy from about 9 months - and still does, aged 3 at bedtime - and my SIL who lived in Germany till recently says mums there practically pull children's thumbs out of their mouths and put in dummy!!! apparently dummies have less impact on dentition and are easier to withdraw (!)
keep up the good work, x

sorry - thought the first post had disappeared & re-typed...ho hum.

OK possibly I'm making progress. I spoke to an NCT counsellor who was WONDERFUL!!! I'd only just started to describe the pain when she stopped me and told me I had thrush. She then went on to describe a couple of ailments that dd2 is suffering from like the nappy rash that looks awful and I really can't clear up despite airing and sudophed cream etc. And to think I just thought it was me being a bad mother! Also Katherine, you're right she pulls off and then comes back for more. No spots in her mouth but I'm told that that is a sympton that doesn't always appear. The counsellor advised me to phone my doctors immediately. I was skeptical and my skeptism unfortunately came true but I must agree that thrush is not an emergency. Anyway the doctor I spoke to on the phone suggested I see my local doctor tomorrow or possibly Monday (don't think I can wait that long!!!) but said that they would prescribe canesten for my breasts and to stop feeding dd2 and start expressing instead. This is NOT what the NCT counsellor suggested. She indicated that there are creams that I can use on my nipples that will still allow me to continue bfing. Does anyone know what they are? I want to know before I visit my doctors because I don't have a lot of faith in them. She also said I will need a seperate cream for dd2's mouth (Dactarin???) and another for her bottom and that it will be at least 48 hours before anything starts to get better. Gosh I do hope this resolves things!

Wills,I think I was told to use Dactarin on both nipples and mouth. I certainly continued breastfeeding. If you are expressing, this milk will be infected so you can't use it.

HTH.

wills, just going to hunt for book under bed without waking dd2!!!

damn. can't find it. found The Bowel Book though (also a good read ) and a pair of clogs I'd forgotten I had

Wills - you do not need to stop feeding. You can use daktari gel on your nipples. You can actually use canesten for nipples and babies bottom which can be bought over the counter. Perhaps it is nystan or daktarin gel for babies mouth. You might be able to get daktarin gel over the counter too. Go and ask the pharmacist. Will your GP not just leave you a pescription? Your midwife/ health visitor would be able to get you a prescription too.

Go to www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk they have a great info bit on thrush. very very helpful.

Hope the camping goes well Katherine! Keeping fingers crossed for a dry night. Wills, I really hope this gets resolved soon - there's nothing worse is there, than dreading a feed because you know it's going to hurt - I was finding evenings really tough with dd, because she feeds SO much in the evening, and I just didn't want her to go anywhere near my nipples! Really hope this improves for you, then you can enjoy the feeding.

Musica - yep evenings are definitely the worst.

Went to the doctor who has prescribed dactarin gel for dd2's mouth and dactarin cream for my nipples and her bottom. Although the cream is for external use only he assures me that I shouldn't clean my breasts prior to a feed because it will have all soaked in and therefore be safe. I'm a little skeptical about this - does anyone have any further opinions on this?

KMS - used the link but couldn't find anything on Thrush (probably being thick etc). Does have some brilliant photos though on how to latch on. Thanks

Wills - if you check out the website KMS suggested again, and take the option "Information" on the left hand menu, then the option "leaflets" at the top of the page. There is a leaflet about Thrush and breastfeeding.

Hi all, I can join this thread now! Although my postings might be infrequent as I don't seem to have much time to myself these days! (funny, that...)
I was going to pick your brains about feeding but most of you seem to be breast feeding. We started off breast feeding, but it became agony. I got the Avent nipple protectors, but they were always bloody halfway through the feed, so didn't seem to be working. Anyway, we're on the bottlenow, and seem to be doing okay, apart from the fact that darling ds wakes every 1 1/2 to 2 hours in the night, and sleeps for hours in the day!
GF's book says to keep them awake at certain times of the day (I know a lot of people don't agree with her methods, but I got her book when ds1 was a couple of months old, and although I didn't follow the routines to the letter, we never looked back). But I can't keep him awake, he seems too little to be able to manage this.
He feeds well in the day though in between sleeps, but he is still waking for a couple of ounces every hour or two in the night. Has anyone got any words of advice or hope?!

Neen, I'm not a GFer but I too am working on cutting down night feeds - I'd say (from a perspective of no expertise whatsoever, of course) that he's just too little at the moment. The sleeping does reverse, I've found - I was terribly concerned about it this time as well as last time. Don't forget how small ds actually is at the moment - it all changes AMAZINGLY in a matter of weeks!

Have to agree with Motherinferio. I've heard two theories which would be interesting to test. The first is "around 6 weeks for bottle fed" and the second is "around 10 pounds weight before a baby will go through the night". I know that it is normal for a bottle fed baby to sleep through the night faster than bf so that should be good news to you :0. I would also say that my dd2 is just beginning to be more wakeful during the day (she's 3 weeks and 6lbs 13ozs) but she's still waking me 2-3 hourly during the night.

Hope some of that helps.

I would go with the 10lber theory - dd is just getting back to her birth weight of over 10lbs, and she is nearly 5 weeks. Over the last couple of weeks she has only been waking once, at about 6 am, so going from 12 till 6, and this last week she has had at least a couple of nights where she has gone 11:30 to 7 or 7:30. However, during the day, she is VERY wakeful - sometimes going from 8 in the morning till 11:30 at night, with only an hour or an hour and a half nap during the day.

quick question Musica. I've been told that the breasts settle down after a time period and that they normally stabilise at a slightly smaller size. I really need to buy some more bras but don't want to do it until they've "stabilized". Do you know when?