Not getting on...breaking up...?

[will52]

Male of household here. Am desparate for help and advice. We have an 8month old baby, and to put it bluntly, we are not getting on: We argue. A lot.

She is stroppy, rude, argumentive, always knows best, nags etc. Whatever I do is wrong, even though it's right at least some of the time. Now she has her periods back its a flipping nightmare.

Admittedly I am not perfect, but I am there for her, more than pull my weight and also pay for everything including holidays, car etc. Money is not an issue at all.

I work full time Mon-Fri. She is still on maternity leave and has been for nearly a year.

She refuses all suggestions for counselling, and is always on about leaving me and how much "easier it would be as a single parent".

I am at my wits end - I dearly want a happy family for the baby - but you just can't stay together for the sake of it. This is breaking me.

Please help !

bbird1 - you may be right about Wills wife - but that is as great or greater an assumption as those of PND.

I replied working on the idea that Will was seeking support for his situation and reassurance of what he hopes / suspects is related to the birth of his child and will pass / can be helped - I doubt he would make a genuine post on Mumsnet if he had truly thought his DW was the type of person you describe as he could guarantee that this is not a place to write to seek support for leaving his wife and baby under circumstances which are very recognisable to many who do read / post on here. (apart from the real possibility that he would be - not too politely - told he should go - for the sake of his DW and child)

If his post had suggested a scenario like you describe I too would not be suggesting hanging on in there.

He did say this was something that had started part way through pregnancy - hence the PND suggestions. Plus of course the experinces of a number of posters including myself.

I do not know what experiences you have had to support your thinking - apart from that of a mate. But my own experince was very much as I described.

bbird1 your comments are bigotted. You'll be saying she deserves a slap next.

bbird1

Interesting comments from all. Some good and some complete BS and obviously female hormone biased.

When you recognise that you have a problem you are 80% towards fixing it. She won't accept there is a problem - denial.

Sure a baby dropped into anyones world is super disruptive and 24x7. Its hard. So you need help. Quite why any sane person would refuse help is beyond me. I work M-F and am out of the house generally 7am-7pm and come back knackered. Therefore weekends are hard for both of us but she does get quite a bit of time off.

She is constantly moaning about the load on her being too much, being tired and as a result behaves like a complete fucking arsehole towards her partner.

She needs more time off. This is obvious. I have offered to pay for day help / night help and ensure there is consistency in the person that comes, but it is rebuffed. Parents are not an option given distance.

You can take horse to water but you cant make it drink.

Its pathetic !!

Hmmm.

You seem to have missed the point. Those that are female hormone biased are trying to explain to you what happens to a woman after having a baby. It's not BS. And if you have PND, you are not completely sane!

Your attitude here makes you sound like an ass, frankly, so if you talk to her in a similar way no wonder you're not getting anywhere, 'hun'.

But hey, be simplistic, if it makes you feel better. Leave, go back to the bachelor life and see your child every couple of weeks. Or have a real think if you want to sort things out and be a real part of your family. You're not the 'male of the household', you're the father and partner.

@wannbeglam - no dear, you seem to have missed the point.

So you're not patronising then?

You do sound like you are trying to be supportive,and giving help with the baby too...which is a lot more than some. Basically I suppose it comes down to whether she does have pnd and whether you can get through it together. If she won't accept help or that there's a problem then there isn't much you can do...is there no way she will talk to a hv or gp? I'm guessing you wouldn't be doing anything too drastic between now and Christmas,so could you see how things go over the next month? You'll be off work over Christmas (I assume) so maybe some time together will help you all. Goodluck

have you considered that the not asking for help is in some ways a natural response? That she wants to have the time with her baby even if it isn't happy time?

you have said many negative thins about her behaviour 'its pathetic' etc...do you really still love her?

the way i see it -

1. you stick it out
2. leave
3. Find a way to reach her.

there is alot in your post of 'i am doing the right things'.. but if you really believe that, why ask for advice?

you mention earning the money and paying the bills: do you hold this over her? Might she think you are holding that over her?
It seems an odd thing to mention in a post like this.

describe how you have attempted to discuss things with her - it may be possible there are ways you can make such an approach more likely to succeed.

Look - this is one of many sources of help & assistance that I am using. Anyone would be mad to rely solely on this forum. I subscribe to the view that it is best to solicit the views of others, digest the responses and make educated decisions.

I agree that you should use many sources of information and gather many views to help you to make your decision....but seems like you've already made up your mind and you just want someone to agree with you so that you feel justified in whatever decision you want to take.

If you're really interested in making an informed decision, maybe you should open your mind a bit more, rather than reducing what seemed like a genuine desire to try and find out whether you could work through these issues with your wife (as in your original post), to name calling ("it's pathetic", "acting like a fecking bitch" etc etc).

"I subscribe to the view that it is best to solicit the views of others, digest the responses and make educated decisions."

Really?

Having read through all this again, with your attitude, and general venom, I think you would be doing your wife a favour by leaving. Maybe really the problem IS you, and not her.

You are out of the house 7am to 7pm - that's a long time for your wife to be alone with the baby. It gives her 12 hours in which to become extremely close to her baby and their routine together and her routine with the house to become set in stone and even inflexible. I was alone with my baby during the first year as my husband worked long hours; I didn't have PND or any form of depression but I did become more controlling and inflexible because my long hours a day with my DD were very intense.

In my experience, it all got better when I returned to work and had to "relinquish control" to the childminder. I became much nicer to my husband and less "bound" to my baby. In short, returning to work , for me at least, gave me perspective.

Leave it a while, let her return to work, then see whether things improve or not.

@Orissiah - which reinforces my point about external hired help is essential...

@QuintessentialShadows - not very helpful; keep the hormones in check pls.

Agree, external hired help may help, but she may only agree to it once she's back at work and have no choice but to arrange childcare for your child. You may have to wait this out and rethink only if returning to work doesn't help.

I agree it's too early to bail. This is well-known to be the hardest time for couples, and the worst time for break-ups in marriages. It's always in articles in the Guardian and Times. If you get through the first year, she goes back to work, get a cleaner, get some help, you go along another year or so and it's still awful, that's different. But lack of sleep and a massive shift in lifestyle and expectations puts people at each others throats (been there, got the t-shirt). This gets better, and so does parenting together, and quite frankly, even if if doesn't, you are stuck together now for life if you want to be an active parent, you'll still have to talk about parenting even if you split up. Moan to your mates, punch a pillow, don't reassess in the middle of a crisis, try to change the dynamic (being cold and critical with the dislike seeping through isn't very nice to be on the end of, even if you feel justified), and stick it out. Time will tell.

Will

I think I would do my research and then write her a letter, telling her how much you love her and your daughter, what a good job she is doing, what a fantastic mother she is and how much you value her and your family life - but that you cannot continue living with this level of animosity/anger towards you and, if ultimately she wants to be a single mum you will accept that however sad it makes you - but not before you have BOTH tried a number of options to get back to a place where your daughter has two happy loving parents living together. And that while you are willing and open to looking at what you can change to make that happen you also need her to be open to considering whether she has PND and consider how you can both seek help to get through this.

Before you write your letter I would:

1. Read and research as much as you can about PND www.pni.org.uk/
2. Call the new post-natal help-line that has been launched specifically for fathers who are finding the new fatherhood game all too much.Parentalk on 020 7450 9073 or visit their website www.parentalk.co.uk
3. Consider taking 2 weeks off work to learn the 'baby ropes' - this isn't to give in to her controlling micro-managing ways - this is to show you are supportive of her and you want to know what her and DD's daily routine is
4. Consider either just you or both of you getting some Relate counselling (available via telephone) so have a look on the relate website and find out how this would work for you - make initial enquiries - as others have suggested it may be a lifeline for you even if she doesn't want to pursue it.
5. Cleaners are all well and good but make sure they come at a time when she and DD could be out of the house at a group/class
6. www.sitters.co.uk I was not keen on leaving my DS with someone but we booked and had a few different sitters come and play with DS while I was here and we have about 3 now I am happy to book for an evening out

I would set out a number of options (her calling the PND helpline as well as you to see if it rings any bells for her, making a GP appointment, telephone counselling with Relate etc)

I would also suggest going to visit her parents but booking into a local hotel so they get to spend an evening or two with their GD and you get some proper time to speak with your wife about the letter and how you both move forward.

I don't have personal experience of PND but I can certainly say that even having been someone who was relatively laid back before children, it increases your anxiety levels and can be extremely overwhelming even without PND. You don't have to put up with bad treatment (whatever the cause) but you may have to realise that out of the two of you, you are the one with more time and a bit of distance to come up with suggestions and a route out of this for both of you. But how you have that conversation is key - you can be worried for her without being patronising and you need to frame it in the context of what you BOTH can do rather than a personal attack. Prefacing the letter with your love and appreciation for your DD and her and your family as a whole might make her realise what she risks losing in a way that a threatening ultimatum can't.

I hope that the unnecessary and personal comments you have made here are borne out of your frustration and do not signal your general disposition in RL since, as other posters have pointed out, it may be that your attitude (however 'right' you feel) comes across at home. If so I think you have to be open to the fact that you too need to make changes. It does not help to think of it in terms of 'well she wanted the child' because if that were the case, would you ever want that point of view taken into account when deciding custody? No, of course not. Your DD is here now and needs both of her parents.

Will, you acknowledged me. I have been very helpful from the beginning of your thread. And when you DO acknowledge me, it is patronising male chauvinist tripe.

My comments stand.

But I will bow out, because I dont think you want to help your wife. I think you want a reason to bail. So, listen to bbird, as he might be your soulmate.

will, we started out sympathetic to your plight, but your increasingly patronising and sneering posts have certainly caused my sympathy to dry up. I hope you do manage to save your marriage for the sake of your DC.

What quint said.

Adieu.

my god you are so ful of vitriol.

things are out of control in your relationship, and you feel you need to control it but be wary becuase you are coming across as nasty and selfish.

You have come across badly here, but maybe that's due to you being at the end of your tether.

So, before posting you suggested councelling, which she wouldn't go for.
You come to this thread for suggestions - which you've received.
What are you now going to do differently?

It might be worth calling your gp and having a word. The next time your partner is in with the baby the gp may be able to suss out what is going on. Thats if you have a sympathetic gp. It was my gp made me realise how I was feeling was not normal and that there was a way to manage it.

Also I realise that this is tough to live with and you are at your wits end but anger breeds aggression. To be truly supportive you are going to have to find a away to manage your resentment and be kind. I understand you feel this might not be fair on you etc but you will have to take into account the 'venus and mars' of this all. Women need a different approach at vulnerable times like this while men tend to just want to get on with fixing the problem. If it is PND you should feel sorry for her rather than angry. She is very vulnerable and most likely terrified and in a scary place too. On top of that she has this little baby that she feels she needs to be perfect for. You being angry will make her more defensive and feed into the negativity that she is feeling making her obsessive. I understand that it would be easier if she would just recognise it is a problem but if it were that simple we wouldnt have to worry about the condition. She is not able to see things clearly at the moment and you will not be able to fully understand what she is going through. Its a tough one but you have to decide if you can love her thru it. If you stay and try to patiently support her thru this and gently nudge her towards getting help it could be the foundation of something far greater in your marriage. When you think you are sinking having your DH stand by you and keep your head above water ...well it changed my definition of love. I know now that it will never happen again to that degree because I can trust him to the end of the earth. my advice would be kill her with kindness for a while, see it as being tactical rather than giving in. Once she is feeling even a little more secure she may be able to open up again. Best of luck