Not getting on...breaking up...?

[will52]

Male of household here. Am desparate for help and advice. We have an 8month old baby, and to put it bluntly, we are not getting on: We argue. A lot.

She is stroppy, rude, argumentive, always knows best, nags etc. Whatever I do is wrong, even though it's right at least some of the time. Now she has her periods back its a flipping nightmare.

Admittedly I am not perfect, but I am there for her, more than pull my weight and also pay for everything including holidays, car etc. Money is not an issue at all.

I work full time Mon-Fri. She is still on maternity leave and has been for nearly a year.

She refuses all suggestions for counselling, and is always on about leaving me and how much "easier it would be as a single parent".

I am at my wits end - I dearly want a happy family for the baby - but you just can't stay together for the sake of it. This is breaking me.

Please help !

DandyLioness - methinks you're missing the point. Pussyfooting around his missis has got this guy nowhere. Moreover, she sounds like the type who would kick off big style if she got wind he had been talking to somebody else about their marital problems - hence asking sister or whatever to lend a 'loving ear' is a non-starter.
Reading between the lines of will52's post I can see a picture of a man who has gone way too far in his bid to play the nice guy and lost all respect of his wife in the process. She needs somebody who will lay the law down a bit. Act like a doormat and somebody will soon start to treat you like one. I mean, getting bollocked for mashing a banana the wrong way - wtf is that all about?

bbird, it's very hard to imagine if you've never been there, but after having a baby, you can end up in a dark place where everything is seen through the prism (or indeed prison) of motherhood - which can be an extremely alien place for many women nowadays. Sleep deprivation is also a living nightmare and the relentlessness of the whole experience can be totally overwhelming. It's not surprising some women struggle to cope.

I'm not saying will's DW is behaving reasonably, she isn't. People with mental health issues often don't and this is infuriating and heartbreaking to the people who care most about them.

But hey: "in sickness and in health.."
Once the depression is treated, chances are will's DW will settle down again. But if will is as loving a husband as he seems from his posts, then he needs to be patient and try to do all he can to help his wife see that she needs help.

Being firm MAY help, but an ultimatum will probably be a step too far IMO.

It's crap for everyone, but do your best to find a solution and keep the hope that your family can weather this storm together.

'Mashing a banana the wrong way' is all about control isn't it? Stress of new motherhood made me feel out of control and totally lost. I acted/act like a loon over minutae as I was/am clinging on a bit.

My life is ALL about mashed banana/nappy rash and other shite I don't really understand but feel obliged to care about. When DH comes along and blithely mashes away with no care it feels like my 'effort' is nothing.

It's not rational but this hormonal guilt ridden existence is about as far from rational as I've ever gotten!

bbird, you are as guilty reading things into Will52s posts as I am. I dont see the evidence that he HAS tried to do everything in his power. I dont know where you see this. I see a man who reports about a wife stating "she might as well be a single mum". And Will is not elaborating on why this might be.

Maybe she IS at the end of her tether because her husband is not pulling his weight. We dont know. Maybe she ISNT depressed. Maybe she is just pissed off. We dont know.

But telling a husband and a father to threaten leaving a spouse suffering from depression is not very helpful. Though, many men do this.

I dont think an ultimatum has helped many depressed new mums, rather the opposite.

He might call the health visitor and ask advice. He may go to his own GP and ask for advice, and might get some help for himself in dealing with the situation, or the GP/health visitor may bring it up with the wife next time he/she sees her.

Will, Onceamai also wrote in an earlier post that you could go to relate counselling on your own. They will be able to advise you about techniques that might help you to deal with your situation. Also, once you start going and can report positive experiences your wife might be more inclined to join you.

If your wife does have pnd, you need to make allowances and big ones. This isn't easy at the time, but if this approach doesn't work, you will at least know there was nothing more you could do and that you did your best. A key to what you say is it has all got worse now her periods are back. The hormonal imbalances really upset things if the mother is clinically depressed. Is there any way you can persuade her to get some medical help?

How has this evening been?

How has her day been?

Do you have any family time planned for the weekend?

Everytime I try to talk to her, I come out of it as an arsehole (in her words). She wont discuss things. She is always right.

In fact, she's a right fekking bitch. Unreasonable female behaviour.

It is comforting to read that I am not alone, and also disturbing that one or two posts be females admit to being unreasonable etc.

And she wanted the child in the first place (sure I'm a part of it, but if it wasn't for her, the baby wouldn't be here).

No man signs up for this shit !

Its just not on.

So its counselling or bust. She can do it or fekk off. Things are that bad.

Hi Will

Another man here. Men and Women are different and the stresses for your DW are immense at the moment - but they are for you to...

But the (often self imposed) expectations for a 1st time mum can be virtually impossible for her to cope with.

Most dads who are involved and enjoy a close relationship with DW and a new baby have probably experienced what you are going through to a greater or lesser degree.

It almost certainly will get better (assuming it was good before). In a few months and especially over the coming few years you will look back on this time and laugh (believe it or not).

If you can get through this in a supportive way for DW the benefits and joys for the future are beyond belief.

As a man you probably feel that it is totally unfair that you have to accept your DW's behaviour - and using our male logic - you are right - but your DW is using a particular type of female logic caused by the physical and hormonal things she is going through at the moment never mind blind fear - but it will pass - and she will revert to her usual logic in time - doubtless still different but we enjoy that anyway - mostly.

It is a shit time for you but hang on in there - you will miss out on so much if you don't. Just keeping saying sorry and take it on the chin - this time will pass.

Will, it IS shit. It is not what you expected parenthood to be. Bit of a downer.

I can walk through hot coals and burning cinders for my husband after how he coped with ME when I was suffering pnd.
He kept me sane. I am sure of it. In the beginning I would not admit to any depression. Life was shit, he was shit, my health was shit, I was fat, I was oozing from just about every bodily cavity in the world, I felt gross, unlovable, a shit mum, unable to deal with child number one, and baby nr 2. My world had capsized. I was drowning. I remember picking up the phone in one really bad moment after a row with my dh, screaming down the phone to my Gps receptionist "I want to fucking die. I want to diiiiiieeeee!" and hung up. The gp acted swiftly. They got the council emergency mental health team out the same day. My health visitor came and sat with me until they got there.

Long story short. Dh and I decided to NOT go down the road of anti depressants. He bought a bicycle for me instead, and we started to have family days out on our bikes. Baby in trailer, and we built up my health and my stamina slowly but surely, and life became bareable again. Enjoyable was a long way off still, but we were on our way.

I look back at that as my darkest period ever. The change from a highly educated woman with a good job, to a screaming fury, a total bitch, nerves on the outside of my body, unable to focus on anything positive anybody did, was pretty dramatic.

But I realized I needed help. And I am so glad for my husband. I love him so much. Family life, and I, did not return to normal until half a year after my phonecall to the gp, so it took half a year from the moment I accepted I needed help, till I was on the mend so much that we can say family life was normal.

Glad to see you have had some other positive input from another bloke.

I know you are living a nightmare. My husband for sure did. As did I. But I am very happy that we are together, still a family. It would be devastating for all concerned if he had not managed to find the strength to deal with me. And our kids.

Your post made me choke up, Quintessential. Thank god your nightmare is well behind you now. Your DH sounds like a star.

No, you didn't sign up for this will. Nor did your DW. She probably didn't envisage for a moment how having a baby would affect her life and her mental health. Even the most wanted babies cause enormous upheaval. And it's not surprising that a lot of marriages fail soon after the couple have a DC (or two). But those that survive are often stronger and more precious as a result - witness Quintessential's post.

No wonder you feel at the end of your tether when she's telling you all the time to leave. But it's probably the PND talking.

It may be that you have to wait for a real crisis point before your DW recognises she needs help. Or you may be able to follow some of the suggestions upthread and gently guide her towards it.

But please don't give up just yet.

She sounds really unhappy and as others have suggested, she might have PND. Have you asked her if she thinks she's depressed? Have you asked her what more help/support she thinks she needs from you and/or others?

I have a 6 week old baby. If I am brutally honest with myself, I can be a nightmare to my DH at the moment. I am not making excuses for being a shit, but becoming a mother has turned my world upside down and it's a huge adjustment and then when you add in sleep deprivation . . . well, I'm not always that rational, put it like that!

My advice: Keep talking to each other. Keep the conversations as calm as possible but try to tell her that you find her behaviour upsetting, that you want to support her but that you need to know what more you can do. Try - if you have a friend or relative that you can leave your baby with - to get out together and just spend a few hours going for a walk, having a coffee (or glass of wine . . . ) and a chat.

Quintessential - so glad that you have come out the other side of it. Your comments really rang bells with me, especially your comments about your health, stamina and fitness. That's the bit I'm struggling with at the moment. Feel like a useless blob and desperate to exercise and start to feel and look like "me" again.

Will

Lots of good advice here from female posters and I was pleased / relieved that my male perspective was acknowledged and accepted as that. Thank-you Quintessential.

My experience was that almost anything I said to DW was not accepted - after all it was all my fault. It was hard to take as this was so out of character from DW and I was scared and knackered to - but also so excited and so in love with our baby.

You may need to wait it out - as men we are rightly chided for trying to 'fix' every problem - our male default setting I guess - and whilst it may be worth you trying to get your DW to seek help - you may only get resistance.

Is DW still seeing Health Worker / other maternity / childcare support. Can you privately speak to them and raise the PND question? If other posters feel that from a womens perspective this advice is wrong please accept apologies in advance!

11 years on DW and I can talk about this time (almost always) with humour. I know this will be hard to believe - from the total sadness and despair in your thread - but from what I know now my misery was tiny to that of my DW. I suspect that this is true in your situation to.

Keep trying

Iamnotreallysure - it is very good to know that you and your DW can look back on the early months with humour. We're hanging on to that thought.

Will, it's so so hard for both of you. I resent my DH sometimes for going out to work and getting on with his life during the day. I sometimes complain about how easy he has it (lord knows he doesn't and works really hard both in and out of the house). He gets cross with me for being pessimistic and not listening to his (generally sensible) advice because I am so knackered/stubborn/upset to calm down and listen properly. I just keep telling myself that this too shall pass, that I loved him before we had a child together, that I do still love him now and that we'll get through it one day at a time.

Will, I think I may have been a bit like your wife. I found adjusting to having a baby very difficult, my temper flared, I was the only one who knew how to mash a banana, and I really feared we would split in that first year. The first year after a baby is the most common point of break-up for obvious reasons: tiredness, sleep deprivation, hormones, massive life adjustment.

What helped me was going back to work. I was fine once I was micro-managing my work instead of my husband, plus it allowed him to step forward into doing more parenting.

She may sense you pulling away. I know it's very hard not to shout 'I'd be better off without you too' but the more you can explain calmly that her moods are very difficult, but that you still love her and want to make it work, she may actually pull back and start to see she doesn't like herself like this either. And I'd try to think of this first year like a 'grit your teeth and get your head down' situation, don't assess your suitability or compatability or romance at this very strained time.

Honeybee - thank-you.

It is brilliant that you can see your DH's point of view (even when you have so many reasons not to). You surely will make it through to the other side.

It is brave of Will to post as he has and it clearly shows how much he cares for his DW even though he is having a tough (and I suspect lonely) time of things.

Good Luck to us all

You posted at 6am and you were already so angry!

I'm wondering if I've annoyed you too, as I've posed a few questions that you haven't responded to.
Maybe you've already made your mind up?

Hope you have some nice time planned with your baby this weekend.

Life is, hopefully, long and has lots of ups and downs. Marriages (or partnerships) are no different. Having a baby can bring a hurricane into a household. It can take a long time for things to settle and for women it can be a terribly traumatic experience. Sleep deprivation can warp you and even when you start sleeping properly again it can take a while to recover. Why don't you go to the health visitor or doctor for advice on how to help her. They may visit her at home. And talk to any family or friends who may be able to help.

I have no doubt I was completely unreasonable in the first year of our 2 DCs lives and I'm always thankful I had a DH who was understanding. He knew that time would pass and just did his best.

Your partner probably senses you have one eye on the exit and that's making her feel even more insecure. Have a look at other posts on this site and you'll see just how desperate people can feel. And if she has PND she may not be able to help herself.

Don't forget there's a child involved and if you go, you and the child will miss out.

@mrsbonkers

You asked some Q's which I missed:

How long has it been like this?
Before pregnancy? During Pregnancy? Since birth? Just recently?
** A: Started during pregnancy. Fine for first cpl of months after birth. Downhill from there.

Is she going back to work? What are her thoughts about this?
** A: Yes - plans to.

How does she get on with the baby? How do you get on with the baby?
** A: We both get on fine with the little tyke - couldn't ask for more. Lovely little fella.

My DH would say he pulls his weight, but we have different ideas of what's important which can drive me mad.
** A: Sure, thats life. But both mother and father need to deal with this like adults in a rational way. Therein lies a big problem with my partner.

My DD is 21wks and the adjustment to being a mother is huge. I sometimes resent the fact that my DH gets to go to work as normal while my life has been turned upside down
** A: Again, thats life. Its the job that the mother elected to take on, and someone needs to bring the money in. Admittedly if the pregnancy wasn't planned then it's a legitamate complaint.

@mrs bonkers

re your 6am comment.

Different time zone hun.

will: "Its the job that the mother elected to take on, and someone needs to bring the money in. Admittedly if the pregnancy wasn't planned then it's a legitamate complaint."

The fact that a baby is planned and wanted by the mother (indeed both parents) doesn't make it any easier to deal with when it arrives. It doesn't stop PND from crashing or creeping in and it certainly doesn't stop a new mother (and father) feeling scared and overwhelmed by the change in their life. Factor in chronic sleep deprivation and that first year of a first child can be extremely difficult, physically and emotionally.

Saying "her choice, so she needs to deal with the consequences" (or words to that effect) is being disingenuous. Wanting a child is one thing: actually being a mother is another.

Of course it's frustrating if you feel you've been thrown a curve ball, but your DW couldn't have foreseen the way she would feel any more than you could.

She's an adult, yes and should take responsibility for her actions, sure. But if a MH issue comes into play, all bets are off until that's resolved.

I have huge sympathy for your position, will, but being a mum can turn the best of us into harridans at times and thank god there are DHs out there who are patient and trust that the better times will return - as they usually do.

But sometimes extra help is needed. Do your best to get professionals or sympathetic family members involved. As someone said upthread, even if things don't work out, at least you'll know you truly did everything you could to save your marriage and support your DW at what is clearly a horrendous time for her.

I hugely recommend that you (and your DW) read this. It will give both of you valuable insight into what's going on and possibly offer some pointers on what to do.

HTH

Will, my cousin and a friend only realised how hard it was with a baby when they'd left their wives and had to look after baby by themselves. They shared your attitude and hugely regretted it in hindsight. I'm sure you don't mean to and it's frustration talking, but you are starting to sound a bit 'caveman'.

Many people have tried to give you insights into how pregnancy and having a baby can affect mothers. I hope you find them helpful.

Will - I would ignore a lot of the comments on here. They are all making a blanket assumption that there is PND going on. How do they know? Depressed or not, her behaviour is unreasonable, end of.
I had a mate whose wife was like yours - so bloody controlling about petty about things. Thing is, when other people were around she was a different person - nice as pie. Which shows, her behaviour was quite calculated - essentially she treated him like that cos he let her get away with it. I'd be interested to know what your missis is like around other people.
There's too much pithy advice on here - I only joined last week to have a nosy and it's like a bloody women's lib convention.