How grown-up/babyish is your 9 year old dd?

[Dancergirl]

Dd1 is going through a hard time at the moment and seems quite down. She feels babyish compared to her friends because, for example, she still quite likes cbeebies and doesn't have a clue when it comes to pop music/celebrities.

I'm worried because when I was growing up, I didn't know about/like popular culture and was a bit of an outsider. Probably not as young as this but certainly during early teens. It's horrible to be on the outside and I don't want that to happen to dd. The thing is, dh and I don't listen to much pop music ourselves, we don't watch X Factor (we all watch Strictly though!) and I'm worried that dd is missing out because of us. I have asked her loads of times (and dd2 who's nearly 8) if they want to watch X Factor but they're just not interested. They hate HSM/Hannanh Montana too.

Dd seems so unhappy at the moment. Her best friend since reception seems to be breaking away from her and some of the other girls in the class have been a bit bitchy. For example, one of the girls has been saying lately that dd has nits. Dd did have nits but over a year ago and she certainly doesn't have them now. This girl was behind dd in the lunch line the other day and made another girl go in front of her so she didn't have to stand next to dd

I don't know what to do to help her fit in a bit more. Her class teacher is an excellent teacher but young and probably a bit inexperienced when it comes to pastoral matters.

I do think it's important not to grow up too fast and to relish childhood but I'm wondering if dd is like this because subconsiously she's picking up messages from me. But I encourage her to take the lead and I don't hold her back if she wants to do something. I suggested to her yesterday that maybe we start listening to the radio a bit more or get a Lady Gaga CD or something.

Does anyone have any advice?

DD1 has become a devotee of Capital Radio. She informs me her father is rather more Down with the Kidz than I am (this is really not hard) as he at least purchases the occasional Girls Aloud CD

Actually DD1 is, in her own quite charming manner, mad as a box of frogs, but she seems to have many friends and admirers...

I was going to suggest girl talk magazine, also my dd watches pop girl channel 626 on sky,
it has programmes like the Saddle Club then items like 'get the look', and pop videos and popstar profiles, dd1 loves it but still loves to watch cbeebies,

I Keep thinking if its hard at this how am I going to cope in teenage years

I do think (based on my own very very 'no truck with popular culture' upbringing) that it's no bad thing to have an idea of what the others are on about. And then choosing how and when to engage with that, if you wish to.

Incidentally I know both Fennel's and Bink's daughters. And they are absolutely lovely and the life and soul of the party .

I think my dds are rather lovely these days but I don't want them to be so otherwordly that they stick out massively among their peers.

I think Earlybird is right that maybe hunt out other possible friendships, there are lots of 9-10 year old girls who are not massively into pop culture and clothes, it may be worth seeking some more of those out. Or boys if your dd will play with boys.

The Victorian diorama is coming along at a great pace this weekend, Oliver Twist has moved out to his own house (another shoebox), complete with TV, electric cooker and several puppies.

DD1 is 9, and is a real mixture of childish and grown-up. For example, she is really into fashion and music but still makes dens with her little sister and plays with her cuddly toys. I think there will be real changes over the next couple of years, especially as she gets closer to senior school.

I don't know if there is anything you can do to influence things - your kids naturally absorb what they are exposed to. I wouldn't worry, she'll find her way.

Also I agree with the comments about Yr4/5 at school being a nightmare - it's when all the bitchy/cliquey behaviour really comes out amongst the girls. Any teacher will tell you this!

This thread has made me resolve to try a bit harder to expose the girls to current pop music. We used to listen to lots of current stuff, go to festivals and to hear bands, we're just totally out of date on what todays teens might like.

I think that's a key difference for many of us who had parents who never did understand the appeal. We have even taken the kids to a couple of festivals, but not recently and not the sort of music that appeals to tweenies.

But now I find myself going around asking really embarrassing questions like "So what DO people watch these days instead of TOTP?" "IS there still something like a Chart Show?"

Yes, to MI - the "no truck with" kind of upbringing is quite a problematic one. Dh had a "no truck with sports" upbringing (really! - all the prejudices about sports being for the dim etc. etc., as stereotypedly as you can imagine) and it managed to mask all sorts of stuff going on with his eyesight and his dodgy feet-bones - the sight did get picked up in teenage years, but the feet & posture issues not until his thirties and after they'd created some permanent skeletal effects (he has a pronounced "dowager's hump" in his spine, eg).

I realise this is at a tangent, but just another way of agreeing that children need to have the world made available to them fairly broadly so that they can then choose how to engage with it, as they like. Suppose the same goes for religion, though that's a pricklier issue I guess.

Oh Fennel, in terms of 'how do you access the popular mainstream', I can't really help except to say that ds gets his exposure via the radio on the school bus + noisy opinions of the other boys on such.

I was just thinking the other day how 'young' my DD1 is at 9. She is currently sitting on the floor playing with Plasticine with DD2 (4). Dd2 got the plasticine yesterday for a birthday present and DD1 has been playing with it ever since! (dd2 doesn't mind!)
DD1 loves playing with her toys, lining them all up, giving them voices etc. She doesn't pay any attention to the latest TV shows apart from Dr Who. The only recent music she hears is if DH has Radio 1 on in the car. I do buy her reasonably cool clothes... But she asked for a sleepsuit with feet on for christmas!
I just think back to my best friend at school. She had none of the latest clothes, toys, music. Her favourite music was Buddy Holly. When I went to her house we would draw, craft, clean out her hamsters and walk her dog. She was awesome and I loved going to her house; she is now a doctor and one of the most sane, well-rounded adults you can meet.

Bink - how did your dd learn how to make 'infinitesimal clothing' - mine like this type of thing and I haven't got a clue and find it all very frustrating.

Fennel - I suspect that, when you manage to access mainstream popular culture on behalf of your dc, you'll likely resolve to keep your dc well away from most of it!

Dd said the other day - after a bordering-on-rude comment to me that was filled with attitude (very unusual for her): 'I'm sorry for acting that way Mum, but I think I learn it from the shows on Disney Channel because that is how the people behave' (Hannah Montana, etc).

Popular culture is not always a good influence/example - though it is probably good to be familiar with the current trendy telly, music, etc so your dc don't seem completely out of touch. Perhaps far 'cooler' to say 'oh yes, I know about that and think it is rubbish' instead of 'I don't know what you're talking about'.

Earlybird, my sister was telling me her shock at seeing Miley Cyrus "practically naked, it was porn" on a late evening show. but then I think that's just what my parents would have said.

I actually put Radio 1 on this afternoon (on the way back from the slightly obscure children's play - depression and pacifism theme - at the local Arts Centre). I was quite happy to find it was the Chart Show but the dds weren't that interested. I suggested we turned it on at home but they said no thanks.

DD1, who has great similarities to the Binklette, firmly asked her friends what she should be listening to. We don't have the Disney Channel, though.

They are currently making pom-poms at the moment .

But I'm not seeing the bitchy cliquiness. I'm really not. I suspect DD1 is quite good at floating above it all , knowing the cool kids but happily hanging out with whoever she feels like. Or maybe, of course, they're all mad as a box of frogs at her school .

Hello Earlybird! and your dd sounds as lovely as ever

dd, however deliberately unsophisticated she decides to be, does have views on popular culture - she was amused & fully aware of the meaning when a friend of mine used 'Aberzombie' to describe a particular following of branded clothing - though I made sure she knew she wasn't to repeat it in case people thought she was being rude.

Weeny clothes - I've had 0 to do with it! ... school needlework club has probably been an influence, but mostly it's just dd herself tinkering away with bits of felt. Art magazines too? - and actually the Sylvanian club magazine is very good for makers of things tiny.

I've just asked dd about popular culture: access to, and she told me cheerily that her friend T "is training me up in it, me and Lulu, but we're not very good at it. She says songs, and we have to say if we know them and I say I have no idea - what any of them are". (This is also I think an example of the ambience of her school - in that if you are an ignoramus you seem to get eagerly taken in hand, not shunned at all.)

Ds confirmed he gets popular culture from the chat of other boys, but does not feel left out "oh no , mum". Ds though has his own ear to his own ground - he is quite animated on Causes of the Credit Crunch and even tried this morning to have a go at the role of derivatives (thereafter admitting he didn't really know what derivatives do).

Thanks Bink. Will have a look at art magazines and start a one woman campaign for a school needlework club :)

My husband just said that he finds dd being different to the other kids a positive thing. I said, that's easy when she's happy in herself and not worried about losing friendships. It's a different story when you know they're desparate to fit in.

I think individuality is a great trait for a kid to have, but it's a tough one to bear when you're young.

As more involved parents, compared to our parents perhaps, are we maybe contributing to creating a plasticised society? Modern parents are achingly aware of their children's social standing and their awkwardness in a way that my parents certainly weren't and are so keen for their kids to 'fit in'. Is this, a good thing?

I know it's not a great response to a cry for help like this, but the more I read on this thread, the more I wonder whether we don't have much tolerance for difference these days???

I know what you mean huffy and I do love the way my older two dds do stick out from the crowd and are very much individuals, not swayed by peer pressure.

But my parents always encouraged us to be different from the other children, and we did stick out, massively. and that made some things about our childhood and school years quite tough. And some of those things were unnecessary. You can encourage a child to be their own individual self, but my parents (and I think some others on this thread are saying similar) used to discourage trendy clothes or attempts to access pop music and other common bits of teen culture, for no good reason. So we stuck out more than we needed to, and it made it harder socially. That's why I'm over-sensitive to any hint of this in my children, yes it's lovely that they don't care about having ipods and mobile phones and don't want to dress like mini tarts, or even want new clothes (they are quite cheap, my dds ). But I want to be sure that this is coming from them, not from unnecessary parental prejudice. There is no point, IMO, sticking out for not knowing anything about pop music or culture, or for having untrendy clothes. Sticking out for something you feel passionately about, or something that's an intrinsic part of your character is quite different.

I agree totally with Fennel. My family was different in any case - my mother was one of the few non-white people in 1970s Norwich, and we were part of the new influx of people who weren't From Round There. So far, so non-negotiable.

Actively encouraging your children not to have anything to do with ITV, or pop music, or indeed anything 'trendy' (the worst insult available for my parents) is negotiable, and I think very different. I never had any idea whatsoever what music was in the charts. Ever. There are whole swathes of music I hear now that should be incredibly familiar to me, and aren't. (We weren't allowed to play music on the record player except in Very Special Circumstances. Despite the fact I was also a quite skilled instrumentalist.)

I am pleased, I will admit, that DD1's brief and revolting flirtation with High School Musical is over. But I am also pleased that she's worked out a way to know what is in the charts, and who the repulsive teen idols are. And can therefore deal with it on her own terms.

There's definitely a world of difference between positively discouraging being into pop music and teen culture, and being open minded about it and your child deciding for him/her self that it isnt for them.

I have 2 sons, one in a year 4/5 class, and can recognise all the girl-types from your descriptions. There are the bitchy ones, the moany ones and the ones who still love their ponies/dolls/fairy outfits. Thank goodness their teacher is a bit older and more experienced and able to control the low-level fighting! I have to say, I find all the girls fairly irritating!! But maybe I am biased

My DS still loves his teddies, lego, craft and bedtime stories. Isnt into computer games or the like. But I try hard to open him up to all kinds of music (from 60s to modern), we talk about clothes and styles, about current affairs, and try to encourage him to experiment with things, even if he is scared it might be a bit too grown-up for him. I do believe that's how he has turned into an all-round sort of boy, popular with his classmates but very much an individual who forges his own path rather than follow the herd. I love seeing him fitting in with his 'nerdy' friends and then also with the 'cool but naughty' kids (and managing to neither get teased for nerdiness or into trouble for messing about!)

mine is 10 (but only turned 10 in August) and in year 6. Quite a few of the girls have started their periods and there's a lot of noticeable movement in the class with friendships, probably because most of them are a bundle of raging hormones!

Dd still loves Sylvanians too, and will for a while. I think it's lovely. She also loves X factor and thinks her taste in music is far better than mine . It's a taste of things to come!

She's practically the youngest in her year but you wouldn't know it. She's almost the same size as me and there are plenty of girls in her class now who are obviously going through puberty full force and look like young women rather than older girls! Is quite amazing really....

Mine has access to popular culture if she choses, but not much interest. She is still a player with toys, very much so. There is more to girls than bitchy/moany/fairy girl

I think it can be a very tricky age for girls, between 9 and 12. Friendship groups can become incredibly important, along with popularity ratings that often depend on things like boyfriends and fashion.

dd1 had an awful time for a while and it was just a case of giving support from the sidelines, getting my head around the fashions, letting her watch certain programmes and telling her how great she was!

It all changed when high school began. There was a much larger pool of friends to choose from and the incredibly powerful group lost all influence.

It's fine to like more child-like things. The issue is friendship/group pressures and not personality as such.

your poor DD.

I have no daughters; but I remember vividly going through hell with the other girls at that age. I think that they have a tendency to pick on someone as the "outsider" and changing tastes to fit in just makes the little bitches change their ground.

If the other girls are being actively bitchy you should tell the school. It's bullying.

Are there any of the boys she gets on with? I'm still friends with the boys I fell in with at that stage; but I have never been able to forgive the girls.

They aren't all bitchy.

For the record, my daughter - and Bink's, and Fennel's - is a remarkably fizzy, personable young woman. A conversation with her does not revolve solely around Rainbow Fairies . I think girls are very badly served by this kind of stereotyping .