Frustrated about not being able to stick to routine

[BertieBotts]

Never really been a fan of routine for babies etc. However DS ended up dictating his own routine of sorts when he was around 13 months which looked like this:

8/9am wake up
9.15 leave for toddler group
9.30-11 toddler group (every morning which was/is a godsend)
11-1pm DS sleep in buggy
1.30 lunch
afternoon potter around house, maybe walk to park/feed ducks/go shopping etc (he prob had a nap earlier in year but not now)
4.30 start dinner
5pm eat dinner
5.30 potter a bit more, maybe watch CBeebies, bath, etc
around 6-7pm bed

This all worked fine, I knew where I was going with it, although DS would always be unsettled and out of routine when he saw his dad at the weekends.

Then the summer holidays happened and the surestart group wasn't on every morning, and we lacked a reason to get up. I am pretty much lazy and unless I know I will miss something if I sleep in I can't seem to make myself get up. (I used to get up for school/college by watching Friends at 8am). This was fine although DS was going to bed at 10-11pm and getting up at 11ish in the morning, but it wasn't really a problem for me as I thought oh well, we'll just get back into a pattern when the schools go back.

But now I'm really struggling with it. I've had a couple of good days but then what happens is if DS doesn't nap in the morning, then the day is basically written off, he won't eat lunch until he's had a sleep, I can't get him to sleep, I spend so long trying to get him to sleep that by the time I do it's 2pm. He always sleeps for 2 hours (and waking him before this doesn't make a difference to his later sleep) OR I keep him awake despite the non lunch eating and then he invariably falls asleep when we have a cuddle or in the middle of the floor (occasionally!) or (guaranteed) if he is in his pushchair or carseat for more than 5 minutes. Once he wakes up he will be awake then for at least 6-7 hours and nothing I do will make him sleep before this time, he is just absolutely wide awake. Likewise if he falls asleep before about 7pm he just wakes up 3-4 hours later and is wide awake, thinking it was a nap. Again I can't get him back to sleep at this time and he's often hungry, because he won't eat much during the day when he is tired.

This means if he misses his morning nap I'm completely stuck either in the house or going somewhere which he can walk to himself (which is the park or the ducks, as the road is too busy to take him shopping without pushchair backup), to prevent him falling asleep.

Tearing my hair out a bit about it TBH :( I'm starting at uni next week and I need to get him to the childminder in the mornings so he can't be going to bed at 10 or 11 or later. My HV is "very concerned" as well.

Also this afternoon, it's his birthday tomorrow and I need to get him up early to go to a thing the children's centre happened to be putting on on the same day. So I want him in bed by a reasonable time tonight, but he got up late (hence missed his morning nap) and if he sleeps now he won't sleep later. I need to go into town to get some more wrapping paper and food for tomorrow, though I could walk to Asda at 7/8ish so if he falls asleep I can transfer him straight to bed, but it might be dark by then. (I don't drive).

Any advice/tips?

Lose the routine let him sleep when he wants to and don't time naps or when he is gonna have one if you need to go out he will sleep in the pram. My dd 14months says when she is tired and goes to sleep in about 5 minutes but I couldn't say what time or how long.

If we are out and she is tired she just sleeps in her pram. This is what I do it works great for us and is stress free. Just stop stressing over nap times and food and snack times and take it as it comes .

Also if we get up early she has a extra nap through the day and compensates for herself .

Yes but then what do I do when he doesn't go to bed until midnight and is tired the next day?

you are just going to have to bite the bullet and get him up early, whatever time he went to bed the previous night.

He will be a nightmare for a few days, and will be falling asleep all the over the place (it will be a bit like jetlag) but if you need him to be up in the mornings for CM, then so be it.

Your HV being very concerned is neither here nor there - his "routine" at the moment would be no problem really if you both had all day to laze around.

My DCs were very much like this until they went to nursery school at age 3, when we finally had something to get up for in the mornings.

Good luck!

Well firstly he will have a lie in or a extra nap. Secondly dd goes to bed every night of her own accord at between 8 and 9. Because they get tired they sleep he may do one night up till midnight but the next night he will sleep earlier because he is tired and he will develop his own routine.

Children know when they are tired and will ask to sleep and they know when they are hungry IME (I know not everyone can do no routine) I only have to fight dd if I try to decide what time she will sleep. Give it a try what do you have to lose?

If you have to get up for CM just do it if he is tired he will sleep .

Agree bite the bullet tomorrow

8 Get up!!
9 Go out even if just to the libary or town although the toddler groups should all be running again now
10.30 Have a snack
12 Have lunch
12.30 Put him down for a nap
2.30 Get him up regardless of how long he has slept
3 Have a snack
3.30 Get out and about
5 Have dinner
6.15 Have a bath
6.45 Have stories
7 Bed

Try and stick to this routine for the rest of the week and you will soon sort out most of the issues you have re sleep etc

What time will you have to be at the childminders - Have you worked out what time you will need to leave the house?

I'd prefer to not have a routine and let him nap whenever, I've just found in practice that he fights and fights and fights sleep this way. (And won't eat.)

I think I'm just going to have to be really strict (with myself) this week and get up every morning. The problem is I get so far with it and then something happens and it all goes wrong again. And I end up with this dilemma - do I go out and do this job I really need to do/see this person I really want to see, or is DS' routine more important? I'd always have said no, routine isn't important, but it just gets ridiculous.

I haven't actually been totally honest about the timings either last night he eventually went to sleep at 3am, 1 or 2am has also happened. It's not fair on him. I can't get him up if he's only had five hours' sleep. But he just fights it.

I can't find where I wrote it down now but I think that we will need to leave at 8 or 8.30. (Breakfast is the other issue, he won't eat until he's been up for about an hour. Just nibbles at things. Do you think the CM would mind giving him breakfast or is that too much to ask?)

I think your cm will be very busy at that time and it would be easier for him to eat at home or on the go.

Work backwards from what time you would need to leave and work out what time you need to be up - I know you'd prefer he didn't have a routine but if he's at the childminders he'll end up in a routine anyway.

TBH you're not being fair to your child by letting him go to bed/sleep before 1am or 3am no wonder he can't make it to after lunch for a sleep. Poor mite.

I think you need to relax a bit. The routine changes as they get older anyway and you have to be flexible.

Subsequent children are much easier because they HAVE to fit in woth what the older one(s) are doing. They survive.

Perhaps if you can be firm about getting up times and bed times the rest will sort itself out?

Where did I say I was so against a routine! Did you read my OP? I'm quite happy for him to have one, as he has for the last year and it's worked well, I just find when it gets messed up it's impossible. I'm not keeping him up until 1am :( I'm trying to get him to sleep all the time and he just won't. I guess he's overtired.

He has a sleep before lunch on a normal day when he's slept 7pm-8am, so I'm not sure what that argument is supposed to mean. I just said I don't get him up at 8am if he's been to bed that late the night before. I know that most toddlers have their sleep after lunch but he's always had his in the morning even when I let him totally set his own pattern.

He's just fallen asleep now, so he won't be in bed until midnight again now, probably. I don't know what to do :( and sick of feeling like a terrible parent for it.

Why not give him 20 minutes then do the tea, bath, bed routine with him in an hours time and see what happens.

I've just tried waking him (he's probably been asleep for 20/25 mins) and couldn't. If I pick him up he just stays asleep in my arms. Argh, why was I so intent that as a baby he should be able to sleep wherever? Starting to wish I'd got him into the habit of only sleeping in a perfectly silent pitch black room

Try again - if you want to start him sleeping through properly he needs to be woken given his supper and then you can put him back to bed.

Why not sit him up and put the tv on - sing to him/chat - I've had to wake little ones up and yes it's not nice but if it's going to affect their sleep for the rest of the day then you'll have a bigger problem.

I did talk to him, jigged him up and down on my lap, sounded enthusiastic, even poked him a bit - I don't know whether the TV would help as he quite often sleeps through TV, and louder things. (And already have the radio on in any case) I could try taking him outside?

He's had half an hour now - I would try very hard to wake him up - otherwise you're going to get back into the cycle of him not going down before 1am and then you not wanting to get up in the morning.

What about changing him into his pj's that would make him wake up then cook up his tea and then after tea put him to bed.

If taking him outside doesn't work, put him in the bath then give him his tea after. Surely he can't sleep through a bath?

Good luck and don't beat yourself up about it

I seem to remember reading somewhere that waking them up after 10 minutes is the best thing to do if they fall asleep after 4pm. I think it stops them going too deep.

I am sure I used to do this with ds1. He had an afternoon place at nursery and it was an absolute nightmare....(it was 20 years ago, so memory a bit hazy)

Change his bum I had to do this with ds because he was only sleeping 3 hours a night and having a six hour nap when newborn so we changed his bum and then bathed him.

He can sleep through a nappy change and clothing change (sometimes) - but going outside worked :) having tea now. Thanks for your help.

Did he go down well?

If it's his birthday tomorrow does that mine he's going to be 2?

Some children give up their naps around that age or just have one every few days.

Perhaps you need to stop the sleep during the day so he crashes at 7pm for the night.

I thought you meant he was 13 months - can't believe he's 2.