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Parenting

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Original poster

What do you do if...

51 replies

emkana · 27/08/2005 21:56

... you have a friend who does things with her children which you think are totally and utterly wrong? My friend takes her baby downstairs to sleep in the travel cot in the utility room at night, because then she can't hear him when he wakes up again and cries.
That sends shivers down my spine, but I really like her and don't want to upset her. What can I do?

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bumpylump · 27/08/2005 21:57

eek that's a though one? Did you ask her what about if he's in trouble/need you? and what was her response?

expatinscotland · 27/08/2005 21:58

HOw old is he?

mckenzie · 27/08/2005 21:59

is that for real emkana? It doesn't bear thinking about.

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Beabea · 27/08/2005 22:00

Isnt that neglect. You need to speak to her if you are a friend. That is truly awful.

If social services found out Im sure they would be acting on it.

colditz · 27/08/2005 22:00

Tell her about "A Baby" the same age, died as a result of choking to death because his mother couldn't hear him, as she had left him out of earshot so as not to be woken up.

hercules · 27/08/2005 22:02

I couldnt be friends with someone like that.

Original poster

emkana · 27/08/2005 22:03

It's so difficult though, isn't it? But your suggestion sounds good, colditz.

OP posts:

Original poster

emkana · 27/08/2005 22:07

In theory I agree, hercules, but she is also a very good and warm-hearted mother when you are around her during the day, and I've known her for quite a while and would miss talking to her..
it's really awful

OP posts:

Jimjams · 27/08/2005 22:10

Do you think she reallly does it? Or do you think she says she does (or maybe did once) to be a bit melodramatic. It seems a very very odd thing to do.

Jimjams · 27/08/2005 22:12

I think I would say "god aren't you worried about him choking, or getting ill in the night, or there being a fire or something". At this time of night it can take me a while to hear ds3 as I don't rerally use monitors much these days, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with him that far away.

morningpaper · 27/08/2005 22:18

I think it's unwise but it's probably quite common. I have had a couple of friends who have said that they make sure there are lots of shut doors between them and their babies so they don't wake them up.

About 10 years ago a friend of mine lost her nearly-year-old son after putting him to sleep in their lounge because he was crying and she was at the end of her tether. I still think of her all the time.

Original poster

emkana · 27/08/2005 22:20

morningpaper.

The problem is also that I'm the complete opposite to her - we co-sleep, and my friend knows this, and that makes it somehow even harder to talk about it, IFKWIM?

OP posts:

morningpaper · 27/08/2005 22:23

I do know what you mean. I'm not sure that there really IS much you can do. Some parents just don't WANT to respond to their child's every need and doing so drives them up the wall. It's really hard when you feel/believe in a different approach.

Original poster

emkana · 27/08/2005 22:25

That's it, morningpaper - my friend talks about it completely matter-of-factly (sp?), seemingly not feeling bad about it at all! She just seems to feel that she deserves a good night's sleep!

OP posts:

saadia · 27/08/2005 22:31

I think Jimjams suggestion is a good one. You must say something - imagine if God forbid something did happen, you would regret not saying anything all your life.

It is very difficult where friends are involved. I'm often a bit shocked by what friends feed their kids (crisps and MacDonalds - I'm quite hardcore about these things) but keep quiet, but your friend's behaviour is very different, it's actually dangerous and negligent.

steffee · 27/08/2005 23:03

The baby must be very far away for her not to hear him. My ds2 slept in our bedroom when he was a baby which was an attic bedroom, so up two flights of stairs, but we still heard him crying even in the kitchen which was the furthest room away from him.

crazydazy · 27/08/2005 23:07

That is definitely child neglect, without a doubt!!!

We still use the monitors when our kids are in bed and they are 5 and 3!!!

Miaou · 27/08/2005 23:36

I covered maternity leave for a woman whose attitude I found truly shocking. Before her ds was born she declared her intention to have him sleep at the other end of the house so that she wouldn't hear him, and to put rice in his bottle from day one "to make him sleep for longer"

When she visited work with him, at about 2 weeks old, he stank of stale milk and sweat and I suspect he'd never been washed

To this day I wish I had tackled her about the rice thing - she could have severely damaged his kidneys! In fact I was only thinking about her/her ds this morning. That's how much I wish I had done something at the time.

Tortington · 28/08/2005 01:02

how old is the baby?

nightowl · 28/08/2005 01:46

well ive just had to change my daughter's cot sheets (and her) three times in the last hour as she has been coughing and its made her sick..would hate to think of a baby sleeping so far away and me not hearing if that happened...baby would be lying in its own vomit all night and what if baby choked? what if they got burgled? how many times do people wake to find that someone had been downstairs in the night? what about when baby wakes up scared and no-one comes?

monkeytrousers · 28/08/2005 09:58

I find this really alarming. I can't get my head round it. And ask if her HV knows about this. I doubt any HV would approve surely, babies need to know their parents will come to them if they're to grow into emotioally mature children and adults. It's vital that they get a response to their cries of distress or they grow up thinking nobody cares She's creating a rod for her own back in that area I suspect.

God, I can't help it, I just think this is so abnormal. You have to say something but try to be tactful. I'd try not to upset her if possibe just so you can stay around and keep an eye out for any other odd stuff. I'm going to ask my HV about this..it's too distressing to think about. Poor baby

Kidstrack2 · 28/08/2005 10:06

A neighbour of mine does this with her dd, who is 11m. She has 3other kids and the little one wakes at anything between 4.15am and 5.30, so recently she has set the travel cot up down stairs and when baby wakes she takes him down switches the monitor on and goes back to bed, this way the older kids don't get woken when they are up for school. I think personally I would break the habit my friend does bacause when she takes him down stairs and puts him in the travel cot he goes back to sleep till 7.30. I would try get him back to sleep upstairs before resorting to taking him downstairs, although I would never tell her this!

morningpaper · 28/08/2005 11:39

If this is "Child neglect" then plenty of people are guilty of this - I've had a couple of friends who think the best approach with babies is to close doors so that you can't hear them crying. I don't think it's a world away from 'controlled crying' or letting them 'cry it out' which plenty of people do. And how do parents know the difference between a baby in 'sleeping training' who is crying hysterically and then suddenly stops crying ('gone to sleep') and a baby who's got really distressed and something bad has happened?

My health visitor was CONSTANTLY telling me not to go to my baby if she cried in the night - what's the difference?

Yes you can mention to the parents that you don't agree with their parenting technique but I don't think you can do anything else.

Hulababy · 28/08/2005 11:46

But I do think this is different to CC/sleep training though, as with CC you do hear the child crying, and you go in and check ont he child every few minutes - never just leave them to cty and cry and cry, with no reassurancing checks or loving pats. And once the child is asleep you go and check ont hem to see they are okay. Also CC isn't recommended until a certain age either - don't know age of this baby though.

Sounds like a horrid situation. I think it is terrible, to want to constantly shut a baby away from you for such a long period of time where you can't hear them at all. Horrible

monkeytrousers · 28/08/2005 12:03

ohh, I have a feeling this will kick off..

Before having DS I read Why Love Matter's by Sue Gerhardt and alot of it is about the stress response in babies and how a baby that learns that no one comes when it cries may be a risk of developing emotional problems.

As far as I know, controlled crying isn't the same as letting babies 'cry it out'. In CC the parent goes back and reassures the child then leaves again - the child isn't just abandoned. The book is especially concerned about this happening to young babies as the brain goes through very precise growth spurts in the first year or two of life that directly seem, on evidence, to have a profound effect on their emotional development.

In a much broader sense it may even point to the reason why there is a much greater prevalence of depression today which, has been steadily growing since the mechanised work system was developed and peoples lives became centred on their work and not their children.

But personally, apart from anything else, I couldn't leave my DS to cry it out. I get flooded with hormones when ever he cries and, yes, I can't stand it but that response is there for a reason - so you will go to them, not get them out of earshot.

The horrible extreme of letting babies 'cry it out' was the fact of the orphans in Romania who were never picked up or comforted. This is an extreme case, but it because of these poor children that alot is now known about infant neurology.

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