Are we child abusers and what could happen to us?

[loler]

This is the first time I've stopped crying since friday for long enough to ask for help!

DS1 is a very loud, large and in your face 5 year old. On Friday he went to a party and then had some friends back here to play on their bikes. Poured with rain so put his bike away, got to 7pm so was going to take friends back to the next road - DS1 wanted to come on his bike - I said too late/raining so no. He then started to kick off (in a very loud way) - in the mean time friends had cycled off to end of the road, I decided that ds1 was safe (if very loud) and so ran after the friends.

DH and other 2dc were at back of house so couldn't hear until going up to bed a few minutes later. When dh did hear he called ds1 in, he refussed so he dragged him in by the wrist (he was still in full tantrum and is too big to carry). When I got back about 5 minutes later ds1 was in his room and still moaning about his bike. Calmed him down and dc went to sleep.

An hour later the bell rang (waking up dc so they all came to listen) - it was a neighbour (he's in the police and so is his wife) - he said that they had seen ds1 on the drive crying and obviously hurt, they had seen dh dragging him in and that it was child abuse, he sees this type of behaviour at work and would charge the parents for it. If he saw us treating any of the dc like it again he would have no choice but to report us for it.

DH thanked him for coming around instead of talking behind our backs, I just cried! This is setting me off again - feel sick, can't eat or sleep and feel like I can't breath. I feel like I can't take the dc out of the house incase someone is watching me.

We don't even smack our dc (if we did maybe ds1 wouldn't dare to kick off in the way he does!). DH admits that he was rougher than he should have been but that he will now never touch the dc again.

Does anyone know if this is child abuse? Could our names be on some sort of register, could our dc even be taken off us? DH has had to go away on business for a week and I feel like I'm cracking up. Should I go to the other neighbours and ask if they think we're awful parents too?

FGS - if your neighbour thought it was child abuse then he should have called the police and reported it not come round interfering and putting the fear of god into you.

Tempers were frayed and it doesnt sound great but hey most parents have lost their tempers at some point.

You do not get your name put on a register unless you have been found guilty of something.

No this is not child abuse

Your dc are not going to be taken off you because of 1 incident - believe me ss have far more inmportant things to worry about

Dont go dragging other neighbours into this - if teachers, GPs, other professionals have no concerns then im not sure what you are worrying about.

Honestly tell the neighbour to mind his own business and if he feels that there has been a crime then to report it - tell him to stop watching you in the garden

SS are over worked and in my experience do little about families where there is real abuse.

The most they would do is maybe suggest a parenting course. Your neighbour mis-understood the situation, and I would call his bluff and say if he thinks there is real abuse in future he should report it, not upset normal struggling parents. All parents struggle and have bad days.

I would also call the neighbours bluff and tell him that if he thinks there is something to report, report it. Then it will all be unproven and he looks like an ass.

What a twat.

Maybe we do need a parenting course - would I go through the HV to get one?

Rationally I know that I'm a pretty good parent, this was a one-off incident where everyone had a long day and was tired but when a policeman knocks on your door and compares you with people who are locked away it is hard to get past the irrational fear.

Thanks for the comments. Just seen the neighbours pack up car so hoping I will be more able to keep my head by the time I see them again

"he's in the police and so is his wife - he said that ... it was child abuse, he sees this type of behaviour at work and would charge the parents for it."

Is this abuse of power? It is one thing being a neighbour who keeps an eye out and another thing being the sort of person who threatens and bullies people with the law. Perhaps you could go down to the Station and find out where you stand.

Was this alleged police man and his alleged police woman wife in their uniforms, with ID and numbers showing?
If not they has no right to intimidate you in this way.

I'd second go down to the Station, report him to his Sargent, and try to get an order against them observing you! How weird that he'll be looking at your children - what a perv. That's illegal, and is against the law.

A good book on parenting is this one.

Good luck with it all. Stop crying now and hug everyone!!

zazen, WTF? he's a 'perv' and doing something illegal looking at a child and expressing concern when he see's behaviour that might be concerning? Sorry but what nonsense.

OP, try not to worry about it. You are a million miles from where you'd need to be for anyone to take your children. We all reach the end of our tether sometimes. Don't hide away, get out there and be the best parent you can be, prove it was a one-off. The Family Nurturing course is very good as the strategies can be applied from toddlers to teens.

Zazen, I suggest you understand what big words mean befoe you use them. 'Perv' has no place in this scenario. Im sure you are a nice peson in real life, not the total twat you have just made yourself sound.

I think you were fortunate that he decided to come round and tell you what he'd seen, how he'd perceived it and what he'd do next time.
He's giving you the benefit of the doubt.
Think about it. A 5 year old ranting and yelling loudly enough and long enough to get the neighbour's attention but not an adult in the house, then a presumably irritated man comes out and hauls the boy in by his arm.
Waiting an hour gave you all tie to calm down, and for the neighbour to possibly hear whether the child was being beaten in private.
he then came round and warned you.
I'd appreciate the fact that someone saw something they thought was not acceptable happening to a child and acted on it.
I don't know you or your family, do you often have to drag your child by an arm? It's not a good restraint and control technique.

do they have kids? i.e. experience of tantrums and how you deal with them?

no, you're not abusive, sometimes you just have to move your kids 'by force'. it's not ideal though obviously so asking for a parenting course via HV would be a great idea! I believe it's always best to be open and honest about any struggles you have with parenting, just admitting it's difficult and getting help instead of being embarrassed - parenting is bloody hard work!

it'd also be good to enroll on a course just in case your neighbour does report you. but I'm not sure they will. it sounds like they're just throwing their weight around. if they're in the police they should have had it drummed into them that if you have suspicions you DO NOT tell the family as it can make it worse!

I assume your neighbour and his wife don't actually have children of their own and have never spent any time with children?

Giving them the benefit of the doubt he perhaps wanted to be supportive but handled the situation badly. That's his problem not yours. On the other hand he might be PCJudgypants and not be very popular with anyone because he thinks that being a policeman makes him God.

Yes it's better that they said it to you, but it's hardly supportive is it, insetad of offering any help they went SHOUT SHOUT SHOUT I'll wave my status at you. Knob.

Give your lot a HUGE cuddle this morning and try not to worry. You're a normal family with a normal standard of parenting.

jeeze, he wants to see littlemad kicking off in the park because he can't hve and ice cream before we play crazy golf - then he'd be on speedial to SS fr me.

Cheer up you'll be fine

Bloody Hell! Do they have kids themselves? Have they ever dealt with tantrums before?

Please don't worry about it. I would also want to go to the station and report him, whether I would actually go ahead with it is another matter. I think he's using his power to intimidate you. If he was worth his salt, he'd have come round at a later date and had a quiet chat with you both about it, before he started shouting 'abuse'.

I would second a parenting course - not because I think you did anything wrong or are a bad parent but because it just gives you extra ammo when dealing with children. I am doing one at the moment and it's great (I am a HV too but don't claim to know all the answers). Sounds to me like it was a long and stressful day and your DS kicking off was the last thing you needed. Maybe your DH was heavy handed in hauling him indoors but what else could you have done - sit on the drive all evening? I don't think so......

Echo what everyone else says about the neighbour - if he thinks it is child abuse then he knows very well he has a duty to report it. The fact he didn't speaks volumes.

I have children of my own, including one with AS who used to have aggressive meltdowns in public. I'm also a primary teacher.
No, you are not child abusers on the evidence you have given here.
But both of you need some support in how to respond to your son's loud and in your face behaviour in a calm and appropriate manner, however enraged either of you are.
'DH admits that he was rougher than he should have been'
I've seen the consequences of accidents in non-abusive families with dislocated joints and spiral fractures caused by mishandling irritating children who've wound their parents up. It happens.
A parenting course may give you both better strategies and more confidence in dealing with your children. Don't run round the neighbours, to seek reassurance, if it was a one-off they will know that you are both perfectly normal parents with a perfectly averagely irritating child.

absolutely not child abuse. sounds like your neighbour's on a power trip. tooootal over-reaction on his part... nothing is going to happen as social services wouldn't be at all concerned about this.

a tantrumming child sometimes need to be physically moved and pulling them by the wrist when they're too big to carry sounds reasonable. maybe not ideal but then you're not always in a position to use a the best technique.

i think you need to follow this up with another talk to your neighbours to explain and ask for understanding. if they can't see that they've over reacted i think a formal complaint should be considered.

In my area if you need parenting support then you contact the Childcare Information Service at the local council. Also, I love The Incredible Years y Carolyn Webster-Stratton (am currently re reading), which has great ideas for parenting 3-10 year olds.

If this neighbour is a policeman then he should no better than to behave the way he did. If you were really abusing DC, which from what youve said I dont think you are, then he would have made it much worse for them, what a nob.

He and his wife would have been better off gossiping about you behind your back. That way the entire neighbourhood watch could be on Red Alert, and he'd be in the clear.

I am guessing your neighbour does not have children.

Police Officers have a duty to act whether on or off duty, but in these circumstances.

zazen you are talking through your arse.

If the neighbour could see that your child was outside all alone and obviously hurt why didn't he go and talk to the child?

No, he comes around later and threatens you.

He's idiot.

I think I'll have a look at that book you recommended, Zazen.

Have you had a good relationship with the neighbours in the past? If so I would definately call them over to discuss it. Tell them how upset you were. Ask them for help with your DS.

They could perhaps have handled it better, but at least they are concerned and looking out for the well being of your children.

Try and put it behind you.

Thanks for the messages - having had a few days to calm down feeling a bit more able to reflect, although I have yet to let dc play out the front of the house and not sure I'll let them for a while. We're currently camped out at the local park.

The road we live in is a small close with most of the neighbours in the police and all with kids who are older, (think stepford wives) the one that knocked has one ds who's about 9. So I think that they may have forgotten what tantrums are like or that their ds never had them (he's very quiet and my dd never had loud ones like ds1).

ds1 is very rarely handled like he was - he's normally guided to a place (inside) where he can finish off his shouting in safety without being manhandled. Since this happened I've stopped being 'nice' and letting dc stay up as it's the holidays, they're back into going to bed at 7. So everyone is much more calm - have accepted that my dc just can't move away from their routine.

I've found a parenting course run by the local childrens centre - going to try to get dh to commit to go (although it's daytime so very unlikely) - as I think he needs more coping strategies. It goes upto age 12 so could be useful for the future too?

Although we're not friends with the neighbour, we've never had any problems with them before (apart from their ds low level bullying of ds1 - he had speech problems, hence tantrums I think - their ds used to take the mick, normal kid stuff that I asked their ds to stop when I heard but didn't raise with them) - have always said hello but little more.

DH says he will go and have a chat when he's home but not sure I'll be able to. Still go shakey even thinking about talking to them. Would be no great loss to never speak to them again.

My view now is, that he was right coming over but I think he should have spoken to ds1 outside if he thought he was hurt. Or if it was too late, coming an hour later for things to calm down is fine but should have asked what was happening rather than coming straight in with the you are child abusers type comments. He's in community policing and a sargent so I'm surprised he handled it so badly.

Sorry for another lengthy post - dh still overseas so have had time to consider the different aspects but not much chance to discuss them - this is the general rambling going on inside my cluttered head.

Now that everyone has calmed down, PC Plod may accept that he reacted inappropriately. He should have offered guidance, like Goblinchild's, not threats. Perhaps DH you can subtly suggest this, whilst sugaring the pill by saying that his words did have a good outcome because you are going to the parenting classes.
Don't worry about rambling on here - it's so much better than taking it out on the neighbours or DS.

Actually, I'm going to go against the flow here and say that I think he did handle the situation well.

He saw your child being (by your own admission) handled too roughly, and came and spoke to you about it. He didn't know the background - that your DS was overtired and overstimulated - and saw an adult dragging a screaming child by the wrist.

He probably spent the hour before he spoke to you deciding whether or not to follow the child protection procedure. In fact, he may even have been putting his job at risk by talking to you directly and not going down the CP route.

While I'm sure it was a one-off - and I certainly don't think you're abusers - I feel that your husband must have been pretty rough to elicit that reaction, and I hope it's been a wake-up call for him.