DH and I have hit a roadblock

[OrmRenewed]

He is the shouty strict one.
I am the easy-going touchy-feely one.

For many years it didn't matter because our DC were quite 'good' and easy to deal with. Now we have a typical 13yr old boy with a developing attitude

I get cross sometimes but more often let it wash over me - I remember how vile I felt at that age. And how vile I was to my parents. They tended to ignore it and wait for me to calm down and apologise. DH told me tonight (during a disagreement) that if he had spoken to his parents as DS had spoken to him he'd have been in big trouble. If I had spoken to my parents like that they'd have ignored it. This all started because DS had got a bit shouty with DH about something - I'd have left it - but DH responded with a lot of shouting and being cross. Cue the whole thing getting big and horrible and DS coming to me in tears.

Both the DC tell me how much they hate it when DH gets cross with them. I always tells them why he got cross and try to explain them but I can only do so much when I think he overreacts. Children overreact sometimes - adults do too but only one is excusable isn't it?

I told DH tonight that he upsets them but his attitude was 'what am I supposed to do? Let it go?' And I don't know what to say. I tried to tell him that he shouldn't shout so much - telling a child off for 'talking to me like that' whilst yelling and getting really mad is hypocrisy IMO.

What do I do? I don't want to undermine DH but to a certain extent I am simply by not being the same as him.

i think you need to have a really good talk to him and decide on what you are going to do to present a united front

you clearly both feel strongly that your way is the right way, but it's causing problems, as you;ve pointed out
so you both need to compromise. you need to back him up when he tells them off- they are MORE than old enough to accept that sometimes people are going to be cross with them tbh!
and he needs to listen to you when you tell him what works for you

I do back him up unless I actively disagree in which case I stay out. But if it's OK for an adult to lose it, it's OK for a child to do so isn't it?

yes.... but if your DH lost it with you would you just ignore it? or would you let him know you were unhappy with him?

everyone loses it sometimes, that doesn;t mean they don';t need to be told that their behaviour is unacceptable

of course it doesn't help to shout and be really cross about it... and this is what you can try and help your DH to see... that there is a middle ground.

Sounds similar to my house, I wonder if there's a bit of alpha dog competition simmering away.

13 was like flicking a switch on for ds. Ds2 will be there in a years time.

I'm really interested in advice and solutions for this.

Yes I agree. And he admits he lost it on this occasion.

Thing is when one of the DC are rude to me I know that they will come and make up and say sorry when they have calmed down. They tend not to do that to DH. Which I think is sad. I told DS to do it tonight.

I don't want to be a buffer between them and their father,

"alpha dog competition" yep, apart from he also has a slightly dodgy relationship with DD now who is 11. She doesn't have much time for him atm and that makes him sad.

i think the problem is you both believe that you are doing this the "right" way.
your way works for you which is great, but that doesn't necessarily mean his way is wrong does it?

I dunno, I am lucky that for the most part dp and I agree on how to discipline the kids so nothing like this has really cropped up

do talk to him tho, maybe he could try your approach for a week and see how he gets on??
I DO think that at 13 your son is old enough to accept that how he behaves makes people cross though- am sure they don't just ignore behaviour like that at school!

"I DO think that at 13 your son is old enough to accept that how he behaves makes people cross though"

And so is DH? It's the same thing.

DS got cross. DH got crosser. Why is one OK and not the other?

I can see why 13 is the ideal age to pack them off to boarding school.

Let people who are experienced in teenage behaviour sort them out.

Or is that a cop out

Orm IIRC your DH is a teacher in a challenging school? This would lead me to believe that he has some really good behaviour management strategies- could you try and encourage him to see your DS through those eyes, ie with a more objective and rational approach?

Are they very similar? Perhaps your DH recognises 'losing it' in your DS and it may be one of the things he is not happy with about himself? Maybe you could use your approach on DH?

Apologies if I'm wide of the mark and have remembered incorrectly...

Orm, i am not saying it's ok for one but not the other... i am saying that your 13 yr old should be able to accept it when his father gets cross with him

and to turn that round... why is it ok for ds to lose it but not dh?

Because dh is the grown up and grown ups should be more rational and less governed by pubertal hormones?

Exactly alouiseg - DS got cross with DH, and then vice versa. But I do have higher expectations of an adult.

tethers - yes you are right. Which makes it odd that he can not tolerate bad behaviour from our DC. And they aren't badly-behaved the majority of the time.

We are going to have a talk. I dread it as he takes it as me having a go when all I want is to live in a calmer household.

The really awful thing is that I am enjoying my eldest 2 DC more than ever before. DH tells me that it's OK for me - they are nice to me. It's very sad but he can't see the obvious.

Of course, it could be that they?re nice to you because you?re a bit of a soft touch and they know they can get away with things, whereas they aren?t nice to your DH because they know they can?t?

It?s a bit chicken and egg, that one.

Could it be that you let things go because you prefer a quiet life? Perfectly understandable, if so, but I?m not sure that ignoring bad behaviour is the answer.

Sounds like you and DH definitely need to have a chat about what you each feel is acceptable from your DCs and then draw up some clear boundaries for them.

Well that would be true mattellie, if they didn't do what I asked - but they do. And IMO they don't behave badly - I don't think shouting at someone when you are a teenager is that badly-behaved, it's what they do!

It's me they come to when they want to talk, if they are upset, they like to spend time with. DH is the one missing out as well as the one who gets a sore throat.

Fair enough, Orm, just trying to put a possible alternative point of view

Personally I don?t let my teenagers shout at me, but equally I wouldn?t shout back as I agree with you that isn?t likely to have the desired affect.

We tend to refuse to engage with our DCs when they?re shouty and wait for them to calm down a little.

well that is what I do too. I don't see the point of throwing fuel on the fire by joining in with the shouting. Later I'll say something like 'I really don't like it when you shout at me, please don't'. By which time they are ready to say sorry and give me a hug.

I just wish he could stay calm and remember he's the adult and the one with the power - he doesn't need to wield it like a hammer.

Well your situation sounds a little bit like my parents, just a little. My mum always backed him up and didn't disagree or undermine him in front of us (not saying that you do) but she did talk to him after we were in bed if she disagreed with how he handled things. Only discovered that a few years down the line when I overheard a discussion at night. I think my parents believed it was important to be a united front to the children (me and brothers). My dad never could keep his cool with us and my mum did almost act like a buffer our whole childhood's and he never ever said sorry but he would give us the cold shoulder and hold a grudge until we apologised. The truth is he was finding work very stressful and has unresolved issues from his own treatment when growing up He's now a grumpy old man and I wish he'd look into counseling quite frankly! It's affected me and the type of man I choose to date actually and I have self esteem issues as I don't feel he cherished me.

Enough about me anyway, I think the next 5 or so years (until they go to uni etc) will be long and painful if he doesn't try to change. Perhaps he should go on parenting courses or anger management or even consider counseling if the issues are related to something deeper? I don't know really, I'm not an expert but I I wanted to reply for some reason. Hope that was ok. Hope things get better x

Your DH does need to sort this shouting thing out. We had a very shouty Dad - and I would never go to him with my troubles in case he shouted at me. I had quite a serious problem when I was 18, I had to get Mum to tell Dad because I was scared of him. This ade him very sad indeed.

Your DH needs to wake up to the fact that he is pushing his own DC away by his OTT reactions. My brother didn't respect my Dad for his shouting and loss of control - chances are your DC will feel similar as they get older.

Ask him - what is the worst that he thinks could happen if he doesn't shout at them? Perhaps he could agree to try it for a week and see what happens?

Perhaps you could try to persuade your DH that his tellings off will actually be more effective if he doesn't lose it, because then he retains the moral high ground.

If someone wildly overreacts to someone else's bad behaviour, then they are then putting themselves "in the wrong" and it's much more difficult for them to be cross about the other person's original bad behaviour - they have lost the moral high ground.

In other words - don't try to persuade him that shouting at his kids isn't nice (he'll probably just think you're being soft). Instead try to persuade him that it isn't effective.

"Both the DC tell me how much they hate it when DH gets cross with them."

I bet they do.

I don't know, I think a 13 year old who starts shouting at his Dad and gets an earful had it coming.

I'm wary of gender stereotyping, but I do tend to believe that teenage boys are different and have a very particular relationship with their father-figure that isn't that easily understood by women.

I've spoken to both my brother and my Dad about how they felt about their fathers as teenagers and was really, really surprised to find out that both of them felt a need to take on their Dad on and beat him.

What dynamic does you DH think is at work here? I'd be inclined to give his view of things considerable weight when it comes to parenting his teenage son.

"he's the adult and the one with the power"

What power does he have exactly? Precious little when it comes to a teenager that seriously wants to test it.

Thanks everyone.

The weird thing is that DH was like me originally. He's still very anti-smacking although he did actually once smacked our youngest - and was terrible ashamed. I think that he's finding it too challenging having an older boy and DS#2 is hard work for everyone! I just find it blindingly obvious that children in their teens are obnoxious sometimes - there is no point in getting wound up about it. They know how to behave - and most of the time they do and are kind, considerate people - but sometimes it slips and I don't think bellowing at them helsp

We've had this discussion before - he just thinks its ridiculous not to tell them off when they misbehave. But I don't agree with the way he does it. He says that he loses his temper - but if the loses his temper everytime he shouts he really has got anger management issues I think he just finds it easier. And it is, lets face it, in the short term.

His dad left when he was 4 and I wonder sometimes if he knows how to be a dad to older children. My dad was mild-mannered and gentle - but boy, on the odd occasions he did shout, we jumped to it! Perhaps 3 or 4 times in my life.

I have just had a similar conversation with my DH, who does tend to lose his rag and shout - at me as well as DCs. It makes me feel like his dog, and I often shout back.

I think that as your DCs get older, you have to stop talking to them like children, and adopt a more adult approach. If you just shout, then they are going to shout back. Ditto swearing.

It doesn't mean that you can't tell them that certain behaviour is unacceptable, or impose sanctions. It's just part of the transition to a relationship between adults.

But he has the same problems with 11yr old DD and 7 yr old DS too skid.

Maybe it's normal but as things are he is losing his DC. They don't like him too much I'm afraid.

No, you're right. There really is no point in getting would up about teenagers being teenagers.

In fact, it's not just that there's no point - you're really showing your vulnerability when you do as anyone who's every stood in a secondary school classroom will attest.