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Need help with a very sensitive complaint against a massive multinational!

1408 replies

MrsRickman · 16/07/2010 17:58

Ok, here goes.
Coca Cola are running a promo via their Dr Pepper brand just now on facebook. It is called 'status takeover' and involves the application putting an embarrassing or funny status on your FB page.
My 14 yo dd participated and I was HORRIFIED to log into FB and see that her status read - 'I watched 2 girls one cup and felt hungry afterwards'. For anyone who doesn't know what this means, please stay ignorant, for those who do, you can imagine how I felt. This was compounded later on when a quick search through dds internet history revealed she had tried to find out what it was for herself. Thankfully, our ISP has a wonderful child filter!!
So, after various emails and phonecalls to CocaCola marketing I have been offered (quite offensively) as way of compensation, a night in a hotel and theatre tickets for the West End. Fat lot of use to me, we live in Glasgow.
So, how do I proceed? ASA? I am absolutely fizzing with rage and disgust, and want a full apology and explanation. CocaCola are saying they use outside marketing teams for different brands and it's outside their jurisdiction. Help!?

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tokyonambu · 20/07/2010 23:20

The problem with invoking (somewhat tenuous) readings of the criminal law is that it would require the CPS in England or the COPFS in Scotland to be prepared to make a case of it. That's highly unlikely, because at no point did any of the actors in this incident actually handle any pornography: Coke and LMFM only alluded to it, and MrsR's daughter was prevented from accessing it by filters. Paradoxically, had those filters not been present there might have been more of a possibility of making a case, but even so it's pretty tenuous.

The basic problem is that the message itself isn't offensive unless you know the backstory, which MrsR's daughter didn't. Had the film title been itself salacious it would be different, but it wasn't. As things stand, Coke and LMFM alluded to the unexceptional title of a film that is pornographic, a fact that the purported victim neither realised in general (that it's pornographic) or in particular (that it's specific pornography). Their behaviour is sleazy, irresponsible and careless, and from Coke's brand value perspective self-immolatory. It's very hard to make a case that a child has been harmed by an offer they didn't understand, and in the absence of actual pornography, there simply isn't a prosecution.

OutrageousIndignation · 21/07/2010 01:19

tokyonambu: Good point, I think Mrs R looked up the title and was exposed to something indecent and the bill also details an offence of "communicating indecently" which isn't age based so there's a possibility of an offence under this section against Mrs R.

I'm sure the company would like to avoid the possibility of facing court action.

Whether the brand is damaged is itself tenuous. The target for this campaign are teenagers and they are as likely to raise their impression of coca cola than lower it. Also the company has been the subject of much worse accusations in the past and just heaps more money into a solution.

weehector · 21/07/2010 05:13

Before I was preggers, I was a client services bod for a marketing agency..funnily enough one that works for Coca-Cola.

I've lost count of the time I've had to apologise to clients (usually at testing stage though) who have been seriously embarassed by developers (the geeks in the basement) being 'funny' when they are coding, which is what it sounds like to me. Believe me - there is one sh*tstorm (maybe the wrong word given the circs but hey) going on in the background between CCGB & the agency responsible. CCGB should have picked up at testing stage but I'd give them the balance of the doubt that they probably did test it several times but this permutation didn't come up.

Someone will swing in the agency and rightly so. Keep on for compensation that suits you -agree London break not suitable & if you threaten to go to the Press (already in public domain though...) & explain not suitable - they will come up with something better as their PR team will be escalating this big time.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

weehector · 21/07/2010 05:27

Ha LMFM (not my old agency BTW)!

Reminds me why I hate digital projects...working with 20 something guys with no social or personal hygiene skills who can turn your world upside down if they decide to go for it...

ItsGraceActually · 21/07/2010 05:47

Wow! 21,000 results in 24 hours!

Well done, MrsR! And Mumsnet, of course

tokyonambu · 21/07/2010 07:46

"I think Mrs R looked up the title and was exposed to something indecent"

I think it's difficult, and unwise, to make that case. Otherwise Mumsnet had better watch out: this very thread has mentioned the title repeatedly, and in fact given a fairly detailed précis of the film in an early posting. How would Coca Cola saying "blah blah...2 girls 1 cup...blah blah" and MrsR looking it up on Google be any different to MrsR saying "blah blah...2 girls 1 cup...blah blah" and other people looking it up?

Moreover, MrsR was already on notice that it was pornographic: her daughter had attempted to look it up and been blocked by filters. So it was open to MrsR to simply say "OK, it's something pornographic, I don't need to look any further" rather than proceeding to look it up (presumably) without the filters active. Instead, she went ahead and Googled (or whatever), in the full knowledge that it was something that filters set for a fourteen year old had already raised an alert for. I think it's hard to say that's unwitting.

By contrast, there are far fewer warnings that this thread on Mumsnet contains a detailed précis on the first page, the title of the thread does not warn that it discusses scat porn and I doubt mumsnet fires many filters. So arguing that Coca Cola caused MrsR to be exposed to scat porn opens up the immediate counter-argument that MrsR caused a number of previously untainted Mumsnetters to be exposed to scat porn. Tu quoque is not the best of arguments (`I may have done, but you did as well'), but on this occasion sauce for the Coca Cola duck would be sauce for the Mumsnet gander.

diddl · 21/07/2010 07:58

How long does FB take to remove a page that has been complained about?

FellatioNelson · 21/07/2010 08:19

tokyo agree with what you say totally - you are not excusing what happened, just showing how easy it would be to have the argument trashed if you didn't approach very cleverly.

Incidentally though, my laptop was playing up yesterday and I tried to keep up with this thread on both my DCs computers - and I was blocked by filters!

tokyonambu · 21/07/2010 08:32

Oh, and in the absence of an edit function to add one more point...

I've looked at the CPS charging guidelines for the Obscene Publications Act, www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/obscene_publications/ and it's quite clear that under current guidance the original video, if deemed to have been `published' in the UK, would be potentially actionable:

"activities involving perversion or degradation (such as drinking urine, urination or vomiting on to the body, or excretion or use of excreta)"

However, and it's a big however, it's not at all clear who would be charged, and with what.

The guiding case for Internet pornography is R. v Perrin (www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2002/747.html) which is, by coincidence, a case involving the fetish in question. The accused in that case was actually operating a for-money video service, which although it was hosted abroad was under his control and for his financial gain.

My memory of the original case, which I can't find a reference for, is that the jury found that the stuff that was for sale had an audience small enough, and knowing enough, that it would not corrupt and deprave anyone (ie, buying scat porn means you're already interested in it), whereas the free trailers had a wider audience and may have a corrupting effect. The appeal failed on a variety of grounds, so the basic principle is that in order to corrupt and deprave, a reasonable number of people must be potentially corrupted and depraved.

But this is all moot. The actual video isn't hosted in the UK, nor is anyone in the UK benefiting financially from its sale. So there isn't a `publisher' within jurisdiction. But let's accept, for the moment, that 2G1C is potentially obscene, in that if it were offered for sale in the UK the publisher would be open to prosecution.

But that's not what's happened. LMFM and Coca Cola had a financial interest in the promotion as a whole, but were not making a penny out of anyone who actually went off and obtained the material in question. They weren't hosting it, selling it, getting a royalty on it, and whether MrsR looked and failed to find, looked and found or looked, found and told all her friends (as, one could argue, happened here) is not relevant. Neither LMFM nor Coca Cola are publishers, by any possible interpretation, so that's an end of it.

There are forms of pornography that are illegal to possess or to make copies of, and courts have repeatedly held that the act of downloading something constitutes making a copy. 2G1C isn't such a piece of pornography (no children, and it's not within the scope of the - largely untested - Extreme Pornography legislation). But suppose it were covered. Then people should be careful what they wish for, because in these cases the offence lies in the possession and the downloading. So going to the police and saying "this company encouraged me to download material that is illegal under the Extreme Pornography legislation" is something you should have a lawyer beside you for, because you've just admitted to a serious offence.

As I keep saying, I think what Coca Cola and LMFM did was inexcusable, and they should be held to account in the court of public opinion. Writing, as I have done, to your MP to encourage them to investigate LMFM's dealings with government is a good idea, as is writing to the likes of Tanya Byron (1) to raise it through some of her work. That Coca Cola, Dr Pepper and Lean Mean Fighting Machine all lead to this story when googled for is just, right and proper. It's about objectification, the normalisation of porn, grooming, bullying behaviour by boys towards girls (I use the diminutives advisedly), the sleaze of common discourse, etc, etc. It was a horrible thing for the companies involved to do, and they should pay for it, literally and metaphorically.

However, I don't think an offence was committed, per se, and even if by some tenuous reading of an act you could construct one, I don't think it would be prosecutable. I am not a lawyer, but I've been working in internet law as relating to real world offences for approaching twenty years, to the point of attending Home Office workshops and the like, so I am reasonably confident in my judgement.

(1) I was at a meeting a few years ago with a bunch of MPs and Tanya Byron: like schoolboys when the young French teaching assistant wears a summer dress, I tell you. Mmm, Tanya, how can we agree with you more.

PinkElephant73 · 21/07/2010 10:25

weehector interesting perspective as this was similar to my gut feel as to what has happened here.

I would love to see whatever geekboy was responsible for this line to be named and shamed. Thats the beauty of the internet, the freedom for information to be shared, isn't it - and I'm sure the individual in question, having no qualms about sharing references to extreme pornography, would be quite happy to go public. I'm sure his mum would be so proud of him.

NetworkGuy · 21/07/2010 11:57

"the company has been the subject of much worse accusations"

Sorry, but what is 'worse' - can you give any links to stories ?

I know Mark Thomas did a piece on Channel 4 a while ago, but what else ?

coraltoes · 21/07/2010 12:14

the IT gyus who came on earlier in this thread have missed a massive point. The big deal for Coca Cola (and Dr Pepper) is brand reputation, and this (regardless of whether you think the film clip is ok or not and regardless of the whole issue of promoting it to teens) is enormously damaging to a family brand name and cannot be justified as a promotion! I work in a similar industry and you cannot ever make a decision with regards to any form of public communication without asking "does this fit my brand and is this how i want it to be viewed by the customer". if there is even a hint of doubt it has to be rejected as an idea. So whilst you may think it is all a hilarious overreaction, you're missing the point that it failed in its aim as a promotion, in its responsibility to its customers and its responsibility to shareholders.

Now above and beyond that is the concerning message it sent out to teens, that highly sexualised references are ok, that references to degrading porn are ok, that lifting privacy settings is ok...all during a time when you have the police urging parents to ensure their kids have all the safety controls in place on their PCs. A parent can only monitor so much, they may have told their children about the filters, and taught them about security settings, but when a £1000 a week prize tempts them to change these, how is a parent to know?!

NetworkGuy · 21/07/2010 12:32

coraltoes - someone yesterday night posted about a senior Coca-Cola person being in Marketing Week (?) talking (at a conference I think) on taking risks and "lighting fires".

My guess is that Dr Pepper looks at the teenage market and how best to communicate with teens, sees Facebook and Twitter as an easy way "in" and has taken for granted that 'teenage humour' can be 'edgy' which is why their April 1st 'spoof' video was called 'Chatroulette Cheerleader' (find it on YouTube).

Obvious target of teenage boys (as cheerleader shows off her cleavage) while girls will likely watch it and laugh at how boys are gullible fools (you need to watch to the end for that).

Some hypothesis that Coca-Cola might have been party to this, and they would get extra publicity by pulling promotion early, but the news reports, seen by parents (who, after all, may pay for the bulk of household shopping) will be a downer for them.

Pepsi has started a fresh Cola War at just the right time (admittedly have only seen it covered in the big US Cities by LA Times but as ABC covered this story, and it has been online from Malaysia to the UAE, so coverage growing.

As far as I can see, some 'geek' thought it funny (and thanks weehector for your insight). LMFM seems to employ students and is all about "being creative" and I suspect that includes "risky" too.

tokyonambu · 21/07/2010 12:37

"but the news reports, seen by parents (who, after all, may pay for the bulk of household shopping) will be a downer for them."

Google for the relevant actors in this story show Coke identified with porn and LMFM identified with fiasco as pretty much the first hits outside their own domains. I suspect this won't be regarded as a good outcome by anyone.

PinkElephant73 · 21/07/2010 12:38

coraltoes There are "so what" comments about this on media blog sites from people apparently working in the advertising "industry". If they don't get your point, they should be shown the door from their jobs.

Heres a little four point plan for Coke:

  1. Fire the agency immediately
  2. Discipline internal staff who signed this off
  3. Make a substantial donation to an internet safety charity.
  4. Write an open letter to apologise and confirm the above.
Flighttattendant · 21/07/2010 12:40

WineonaFridaynight might I just hijack to demand ask that you update us on the wedding thread, please?

We are all about to jump off a cliff, a bit like a bunch of lemmings, so it is really rather urgent.

PinkElephant73 · 21/07/2010 12:42

Networkguy Interesting that LBFM employs students. Its hard to believe that any paid employee with half a brain would be stupid enough to have come up with this...

CiderIUp · 21/07/2010 13:02

Nicely summed up Coraltoes.

It does beggar belief that a grown up in either the ad agency or marketing dept didn't look at the lists of proposed 'hilarious' status updates and comment 'What's this thing about girls and cups on the Level 3 embarrassing list - what does it mean?'.

I was thinking this morning that this whole situation is kind of similar to letting your three year old watch Cbeebies and then noticing that Iggle Piggle and Upsy Daisy had grown genitals and were indulging in a bit of light bondage in the Ninky Nonk. Then if you complain, getting told a) you're being hysterical and over-reacting b) it's really funny so what's the problem c) you were being irresponsible by letting them watch television in the first place.

naturopath · 21/07/2010 13:27

just seen this on the Guardian website (sorry, thread too long to read if anyone else has seen it yet) so well done for publicising this.

As it happens, I saw a very strange status of a 13 year old friend (my fiends' son) on facebook the other day - was also v pornographic and shocking - and extremely out of character for him - I would imagine it's the same thing.

well done again. I will now go back and read the thread properly.

FellatioNelson · 21/07/2010 13:32

I agree with PinkElephant about what the response should be. And some compensation (amount to remain private, but as a gesture more than a life-changer - enough for a really nice holiday would do it) to MrsR for doing them a favour really, and putting herself in a position where she has been unfairly judged and critisised. If they play this properly it could come out making them look good. Their choice.

coraltoes · 21/07/2010 13:43

Glad others agree with me. You know in my opinion Dr Pepper was on a smart promo wave with the idea of a status takeover, what better way to get kids to see your brand! but why does it all have to be sexual and rude?! Why can't it be something harmless like some really corny jokes?

Now as for the agency hiring students, I don't think that explains anything. We all start somewhere, and I quite like to see firms that invest in young talent. Furthermore young people cannot be held responsible for the campaign being implemented. In no firm is a junior the only level of sign off for something like this especially not for such a major client as Coca Cola.

I am willing to believe Coca Cola didnt quite realise the full spectrum of status updates (i'm not saying i agree with their ignorance, but am willing to believe it was there), rather than knowingly decide to risk their brand values on a quick promo in the UK.

A terrible situation really but one that can be improved with an apology and an investment in one of the internet security initiatives in the UK or a charity.

NetworkGuy · 21/07/2010 13:47

PinkElephant - they were interviewed in Dubai 2009 advertising awards 'do' and it was a comment in passing.

I had considered there was a chance of a disgruntled ex-employee putting the line in after hearing he'd lost his job, but fact it seemed to have been in the project to be "signed off" by the client means someone managing the project thought it acceptable in LMFM, and it was bad judgement that they "got away with it".

Coca-Cola execs have been made to look "out of touch" - though I suspect many 30+ people may never have heard of this porn clip, and below 30, might have heard of it but had mixed feelings about whomever told them!

Guardian report from 13:04 says Coca-Cola has told LMFM to suspend any work. Not clear much has changed since the end of the article just repeats previous reports saying their relationship is under review.

Coke Zero contract had just been given to LMFM, but could be in jeopardy now.

NetworkGuy · 21/07/2010 13:58

coraltoes - re (possible) student involvement - if it did happen, then as per weehector explaining need to apologise to clients in beta testing phase, there's a level of 'understanding' of what's acceptable and what's not.

Someone a few years older, and considering the consequences, may well not have been tempted to mention this vile video. A student, however, is closer to the age group, but not the client's needs, and might think 'just for a laugh' and justify it on that basis to someone managing the project.

I know we all start somewhere, and this may be a baptism of fire with a P45, or just a severe talking to, but it won't go down well if it has lost tens of thousands of pounds for LMFM especially if some other clients like Emirates learn that their digital advertising agency also worked for Coca-Cola, and pull their business too. Could make LMFM an agency to avoid by this time next month.

As for what better way to get kids to see your brand! - I don't know how this can be seen as anything to do with Dr Pepper (before the controversy) because Dr P was never mentioned.

I know if I had a chance to win 1000 pounds, I'd "keep it to myself" rather than drop my chances of winning by telling friends why my status changed every day to something daft.

SkaterGrrrrl · 21/07/2010 14:00

I have been following this thread for days and I have to ask - where is the press coverage? Why are the broadsheets ignoring this? Are Cocoa Cola's PR people working overtime on squashing it? What can we MumsNetters do? Should we all Tweet and FB the story?

FellatioNelson · 21/07/2010 14:42

It's been in the Guardian, but as they are very anti-censorship they dismissed it as a slightly hysteical mum getting all Mary Whitehouse. There was a small but ok piece in the Telegraph, and a bit in the Scottish Sun today. That's it as far as I can tell - even though the DM and the BBC have been informed, and I'm sure plenty of others. Really quite bizarre.

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