if you want to reduce petrol prices, then walk, or use a bicycle. stop using the car.

[stitch]

supply and demand. less users, the price wont hike up so much, and if the cost of petrol is down, then the cost of getting food to supermarkets will be less, which means the cost of food we buy in the supermarkets will be less.

simple really.

sadly i think we all love the convenience of the car too much.

I don't think you're ever going to make it practical for everyone never to use a car. However, there are ways of making it easier for people to choose to take less car journeys.

A decent public (free!) school bus system a la the US would be a great start and would have a big impact on conjestion, imo. Having good networks into local commercial hubs means that the casual shopper AND workers can get in easily without the car (and associated parking hassles). Having greener fuel (such as electric or at least hybrid) for when you do need to take a car journey - and that should be heavily subsidised and car manufacturers pressurised to produce those type of vehicles. All public transport / council owned vehicles should be made to use a greener fuel source where practically possible too - the more vehicles that use it the more research money will be poured in.

I should rule the country

but that's why people need to campaign!!! This country has the potential to have EXCELLENT public transport links (once upon a time it did!).

afraid I believe the public transport has to be GREATLY improved before you could start justifying higher taxes on petrol in Cities - there are many jobs which involved travelling, and the cost to businesses if they introduced it now could be quite bad.

I campaigned for Crossrail round here - it would have been brilliant for us - a quicker link into central London and links to all parts of London.

You know what? Nobody wanted it. The borough launched some massive campaign against it because the district line would have been stopped between Richmond and Kew (in favour of a more frequent Crossrail train on the same line) and some people would have had to lose a bit of their gardens (not ideal I agree but they would have had some compensation).

Anyway, upshot is that even though the line here came out the most positive in terms of cost/benefit analysis, we're not getting it because no-one wants it!!

hmmm - not sure I'd have been happy if I'd been losing part of my garden - the gardens round here are small enough, and I've always been led to believe that around London gardens are precious commodities!

Even with the current infracstructe things could be improved drastically. Before we moved we had a choice of TWO different buses to get into town - both stopping at the same bus stop.

Yes the area just above ours had NONE! - they could very easily change the route of one of the buses to encompass the estate just north of our old house - and there is a demand there!

that's my point though QofQ!

The problem with buses is that (apart from bus lanes) they still get stuck in traffic. Trains/tubes/trams are normally more popular because they circumvent all of that - the problem is that although people like the idea in principle, somebody loses out in terms of the track being built/the stations so quite often, new plans for any new stations/tracks get opposed. So then you're back at step 1!

Electric Vehicle campaign site for those that are interested...

But if there's a GOOD bus service which actually does what it's supposed to - and is noticeably cheaper than using the car - and people are TOLD this then I'm certain that more people would use the bus.........therefore reducing traffic on the roads - allowing the buses to go further.

Once upon a time lorries on roads were a pretty rare site - it all went by train - that stopped as the rail service went down the tubes (although interesting that Royal Mail - having stopped using the train for moving mail to Scotland favouring the road, have since switched back to the train LOL).

They manage to find plenty of places to build new roads/new lanes for cars without digging up someones' back garden, and as for the rail - well many of the old stations are still standing, and the old railways tracks are now used as pathways (often by people who lament the loss of the train that used to run on them!).

Probably been said but, even living in London, public transport isn't really an option - my station has a long flight of steps with no lift and most others I go to have too. When I've tried to get a bus I'm not allowed on as they already have a buggy on board !! Would happily get public transport (and did before dd) in London if it was accessible to a pushchair ! in fact, have even bought a second lightweight pushchair to carry up the flights of stairs but tbh with bags etc its usually just so much easier to take the car, which makes me sad !!

no CD, not if you are wadded, not if you are poor. having a car is a bad thing imo. we share one (dh and I) and we probably shouldn't even do that tbh. however, you could link tax to car ownership, so big/expensive cars, more tax, small, fuel efficient cars less tax. and for businesses, you could give them tax breaks for using road transport less, encouraging them to use trains for frieght for eg.

i do think that trying to get fuel prices down is pretty illogical (as we've 'peaked' in terms of oil production, that is last year was the year that the most oil will have been produced, and downhill all the way from here) it is a resource that is running out. so why would it get any cheaper? that's besides all the environmental reasons for not lowering petrol prices.

but sophable what about those that need to use their car for work because their job actually involved travelling??

the thing is there are plenty people who will never travel on the bus no matter what the incentive - was it Maggie Thatcher who said that a man over the age of 30 who travels on the bus can count himself a failure in life (!!)

We're poor and live in a big city. SO glad we're not taxed extra for using the car. DH needs it to get to work. He gets off late at night in a high crime area. Can't imagine him walking a mile to the nearest bus stop at that time of night and waiting for a bus there. In fact, he gives a colleague a lift so HE won't have to do that, especially as he's an African immigrant who - when he had to use public transport - often suffered racial abuse at bus stops at night.

I've posted about this before, but it is possible to have reliable, cheap, regular public transport and get rid of traffic jams. It happened in South Yorkshire in the 80s under the policy that inspired the Fares Fair system in London. Buses were dirt cheap and frequent, going in every direction. Trains were cheap, frequent and reliable. It wasn't worth your while getting your car out unless you really needed it. Traffic levels fell dramatically, saving huge amounts of money and hundreds of lives. Transport WORKED. And for the princely sum of £20 on each rate bill - with each ratepayer saving many times that in terms of reduced costs for conjestion and road accidents.

Then Thatcher decided to abolish the Metropolitan boroughs because Ken kept winding her up in London and the others were only up North, so what did they matter? And the ungrateful people who lived in them kept voting Labour. Tsk tsk.

Transport has been getting worse and worse ever since. And people keep dreaming up exciting plans for dealing with it which usually cost huge amounts of money, discriminate against those on low incomes and don't actually solve the problem. Instead of just reintroducing a simple scheme that actually works. Madness.

fox - there are also plenty of people who WOULD travel on the buses if they knew it would be cheap and reliable!

(and I really couldn't care less what the Iron Lady said LOL - not a Tory supporter, and never have been )

and they actually ran in the areas you nedd them.

oh I know that QoQ (your non-Tory status) but I always think of that as a strange/funny quote whenever a discussion about bus usage comes up!

(and because we don't have the tube we have a load of bus services round here most of which are always packed!)

Living in a rural area with pitiful public transport and having to go all over the place with 2 young autistic children who have to go to a lot of appointments. Who would choose the bus with 2 children who are determined to scream at top volume / run away / pee (or worse) / bang their heads on the floor etc etc etc?

Manage the above with shopping bags as well?

Get to one appointment for 9am, leave at 10 and get to another for 11:30 which is 8 miles (but 3 buses!) away?

The car is a convenience???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The car is a bloody essential mate!!

in case you think I'm being bitchy, which I'm not, I'm just thinking of my life without my car and I can see how bloody awful and difficult it would be!!!

That's exactly why the South Yorks policy was great. Public transport so cheap there were no traffic problems for people when they really needed to use their cars. It was a carrot, not a big stick like congestion charging which would hurt people like Mytwopenceworth.

hmmm, some very interesting points raised here.
i admit that i was being a bit flippant when i started the thread, and twopence, i certainly didtn mean people in your situation. it was more directed towards people, of whom i know a great many, who use the car 100% of the time. with most journeys being the sort that would take ten minutes ooor less to walk.

Stitch you are right and this is exactly what happens - at the margin, some of us will choose not to take that extra journey because of the cost of petrol. Or they won't buy something that is more expensive because petrol is more expensive. We don't need to encourage it - womebody somewhere is making that choice, and this is why letting prices rise is a good thing!

On a similar vein, I think this was a good article - it all balances out in the end. Expensive petrol plus cheap clothes means car users worse off, clothes buyers better off: kaletsky on inflation

DP has recently got a bike and is now cycling into work most days. it is an hour each way on his bike, twenty minutes with the car. we save £15 on petrol each week. i don't drive.

Did this - got pneumonia at the moment and have to use the car for essential journeys. Hate it.

WE are very lucky and live in an area with very good public transport. DH and I share a car, but I very rarely use it. I work 3 days but don't take the car as my employer will not give permits to anyone who lives within a 3 mile radius, so I usually walk(2 miles), or catch the bus when not dropping the boys at school.
We are near a train station with a 5min trip into town, which I find much cheaper than the bus.
So far this Summer break, the boys and I have traveled everywhere on the train, it's quite exciting looking for new places to go and the kids love it!!
Also, I'm not able to drive at the moment because of an eye problem, but it's made very little impact on what we are able to do.

Yep, I'm with Mytwopenceworth on this.

I live in the suburabs of london. Have a 3.5 yr old with SN's that can't stand or walk. Am currently pregnant. I drop DD to preschool in morning, then pick up friend and drive us both into work. Then on way home pick DD up from mum's and drop fried off and come home. On 'days off' I drive DD to hospitaql appts.
We ahve 1 small car between me and DP.

Without a car my day to day living would be a nightmare. Not sure how I'd manage. Plus the london underground system is hardly the safest way to travel right now is it.