trolls - what can we do about them??

[StripyMouse]

More and more often innocent threads about interesting topics, often close to people?s heart and feelings, are hijacked by trolls on websites - and I am really worried that Mumsnet is following this worrying trend. Custy?s recent thread about her feelings towards her wonderful children is a case in point.
I am just wondering what, if anything, can be done about it? I realise it is pretty impossible to stop those one off posters who are just there to cause trouble - they just need ignoring. However, the ones who really really annoy me (and plenty of others I am sure) are the few regulars who have some kind of ongoing problem with individuals and deliberately change their name to have a go and upset others out of spite.

I am not asking here to name names as we all know who we suspect over the last few weeks - is it just me or do others feel this is a problem that is getting worse unchecked?

Tech - do you ever intervene and work out when a regular has changed their name on a contraversial thread to "hide" ? Do/should people get warnings and be asked not to post or risk being "publicly revealed"? I don?t know what the answer is, just wanted to share my frustration and annoyance at this nastiness. This is a site about shared experiences and mutual laughs and support - we don?t need anymore worry and concern as our chidlren can provide all of that for us by themselves!

What about putting new names on a probation period? If they get x amount of complaints in y months then they are barred from posting for z weeks?

Good idea Stripeymouse.... maybe it'll stop the wrong Mumsnetters being blamed too!!!

totally agree M2T - half the problem is the "not knowing" and all of the suspicion surrounding the problem. It just creates bad feeligns and side tracks the original (usually far more interesting) thread?s purpose.
I like your idea lou2 - I wonder if new members could have a different colour for their name for a set period of time so that we are all aware of who is new and who is potentially a name changer. Don?t know if this is possible or even really sensible - just really keen for something to be done.

dh's forum has a little description of members at the side of each post. It says how many posts they've made, when they registered and a sign off message of their choice, plus a graphic of some kind. It appears automatically each time. That would certainly stop the name changing, because the other details would remain the same.
But then again if someone wants to post on a particularly sensitive issue what happens if they want to stay anonymous for that reason?
On dh's site, the more frequently you post the higher your "rank", for want of a better word. Not sure if I like the idea of a hierarchy like that though - you progress from newbie to member to geek to senior to monk to get a job. (or something like that). It might intimidate new members out of postng though if they thought they would be earmarked - like the pink fluorescent highlighter pen on your student ID if you were still underage - ahhh

I can see your point, stripymouse - but in a way it is strange to think that tech can intervene when an anonymous poster changes their name to another anonymous one, if you see what I mean. For example I only know you as stripymouse - if you post your views under that name or under spottymouse does it really make a difference? Because I still don't know who stripymouse is. So if stripeymouse was publicly revealed as spottymouse, it doesn't matter, because I don't know that you are Jane Brown of Acacia Avenue SE15.
And as someone (can't remember) said, often regulars change their name to give advice on threads that they otherwise wouldn't post on (about money or infidelity or something).
So I don't know what the answer is, but I think trolls etc are a problem on many threads and a bit of a occupational hazard of anonymous chat boards. I think the best thing to do is sort of identify them amongst ourselves (like the famouse Serafina the other day) and then ignore them or make their life difficult so they go away. As happened with dear Aunt Bessie and her famous squashed tits.

Just my musings... happy to hear others ideas./..

I have only been on this site for a month or so and only learnt about 'trolls' the other day, v pathetic...trolls not me. Good advice to ignore but v hard when snidey remarks are banded about on subjects close to everyones hearts like working mums etc etc. Good idea on the colour thing, could I be pink please?

I am quite new here too oliveoil and I only learnt about trolls the other day. I dont know myself why anyone would want to cause trouble on a forum they must be very sad people.

Disagree with the idea of voting people off. I was new to the site when I posted on the pornography thread and I received plenty of differing opinions - and a number of supportive ones. The same thing happened on the circumcision thread. Would I have been voted off just for having opinions that a number of people didn't like?
What's the solution to the trolls? I don't know, but silencing people because you disagree with them makes for a sterile forum.

Solution to trolls is very easy. Just ignore them. Don't react, don't post in response to anything they say. Just pretend the post never appeared.

It doesn't need tech to get involved, it doesn't need any probation periods. Just hold your breath, sit on your hands and move on.

Honestly, I promise, it's that simple.

StuartC the argument about trolls is that they post on issues that dont need to be debating about like the one described at the foot of the page. Debates are healthy on forums but being nasty about other peoples kids is not.

I see your point princess but with time these nicknames do become our identity and some of us know a few others socially anyway - more and more with the meetups. Although we are still anonymous to a point, the amount of information we have shared and problems discussed that I feel like my nickname is not really anonymous anymore but is kind of a public face - enough that if I wished to post about a really sensitive problem I would consider protecting my nickname identity by giving a temporary alternative just for that post - and saying as much on the thread (as others have done several times). I just think that if it were a little harder to be anonymous from our original nickname in order to be malicious and if there were some way of identifying new members (easier to spot "one off" trolls) then it could be enough of a deterrant for some to think twice - esp. if there was a threat to be "unveiled" or kicked off. I don?t know - just talking myself in circles here out of feeling useless and unable to find a solution!

Agree SueW.

StuartC - I totally agree about the voting off thing, that could well end up in a "mob" mentality. I also agree about the importance of sharing and debating differing viewpoints even if it does lead to hurt feeligns occasionally. However, trolls do not provide balnaced healthily discussions, they are just there it hurt and upset people, argue for agruments sake, often no thought through valid points of their own. This wastes time for genuine posters making the effort to explain and justify their stance/stick up from themselves - totally unnecessarily.

Ignoring them is one thing, but I feel like they get away with upsetting people scott free and some happily continue posting under a more "angelic" nickname quietly happy that they have upset someone - realy nasty. Maybe I am too sensitive and should not rise to the bait!

Surely implementing IP banning on known trolls would cut out a lot without having to worry too much about what name they are using at the time (and would prevent another name being used). That's assuming they're allocated a static IP of course...

I think the colour idea could work. For example: new names - red, changed names - green, names over 2 weeks old - blue.

If anyone changes their name for sensitive reasons, they usually announce it anyway, so they shouldn?t be bothered if the name appears in a different colour. But those who use it to act as trolls would find themselves spotted straight away - and promptly ignored. Newcomers who arrive purely to troll would also be spotted ? and wouldn?t hang around long enough to become an established name. And I doubt anyone could be bothered to join and then hang around until their name changes colour before bothering to post.

Of course, haven?t got a clue if this is even technically possible.

sounds like a good idea

The thing is, SueW is right, trolls want attention and if they don't get it they'll go away (says she, having told auntbessie to eff off yesterday!) If you think about it we don't really get that many here though considering the number of posters and discussions, so I think as a site we do quite well on the troll front really. Perverts are a different matter and those threads are, quite rightly, deleted asap.

I think SueW is spot on - just ignore silly trolls, they're looking for a reaction, and you can bet that Auntbessie is reading this thread and thinking, yes, result!
If someone with an unfamiliar name posts something that looks questionable (restraining/bathing older children are two recent examples), don't give them a thrill by responding on-board, just mail [email protected] immediately. Then it means that any one of Justine, Carrie, Rachel or Tech will pick up that mail when they can and start monitoring the thread asap.
Also agree with StuartC that voting people off in any form is a slippery slope and would ultimately diminish mumsnet as a really lively forum where contrasting views can be aired.

I agree, but it is so hard to ignore someone if they are making a personal comment. Custy was so obviously proud of her children, and Aunt Bessie just had to put a downer on it all. There is no need for that. It is hard enough if someone on here that you 'know' disagrees with you, let alone someone who could be any other poster too cowardly to post under their usual name. Why do people do it?

Yeah, I know Chinchilla, I thought it was hateful and unnecessary too. Some people clearly don't like other parents being happy or proud about their children. I hope Custy can just focus on all the appreciative and supportive remarks from names that are familiar and filter out the one misery.

Hi, like oliveoil and fio2, I only just found out about 'trolls' (thanks again for taking the time to enlighten a new contributor, M2T). I did a search on google for 'internet trolls' - there seems to be quite a lot of info on them. The first link that came up was this . It suggests the following:

"What Can be Done about Trolls?
When you suspect that somebody is a troll, you might try responding with a polite, mild message to see if it's just somebody in a bad mood. Internet users sometimes let their passions get away from them when seated safely behind their keyboard. If you ignore their bluster and respond in a pleasant manner, they usually calm down.
However, if the person persists in being beastly, and seems to enjoy being unpleasant, the only effective position is summed up as follows:
The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction to reminding others not to respond to trolls.
When you try to reason with a troll, he wins. When you insult a troll, he wins. When you scream at a troll, he wins. The only thing that trolls can't handle is being ignored."

good point hewlettsdaughter. I am just not very good at keeping quiet and find the idea of not sticking up for others being unfairly treated really really hard! Despite all of that I still think there has to be more that can be done... (sorry, I know I am like a dog with a bone with this one, just can?t help it - it makes me really mad)

Stripeymouse - I think you are a troll.

HD youre getting very good at all this technical stuff

I think I may have been seen as a troll this week with horrendous PMT

I'm with HD and the others who favour ignoring the troublesome blighters. Then they'll bog off and find another site to harass. Comments can only hurt if you let them.