How do we educate people with regards to appropriate use of words?

[lou33]

I'm getting more and more depressed at the use of inappropriate words , mainly in this country, but i hear a lot coming from the states as well through films.

Specifically this morning I am talking of the word "spaz", it's used in popbitch today allegedly used by people at brooklyn beckham's old school, but in fact there are many terms i find equally offensive and unnecessary.

Is there anyone out there who can explain to me why it is funny to take the pi*s out of people for things they have no chice about, like disabilities and skin colour?

I know background and education have a big part to play, but i come from the sort of upbringing that you could theorise would make me more likely to use these awful negative terms, yet i just knew they were wrong , even as a child.

It makes me both sad and angry that i still read, see, hear this all around me (and yes i do take people to task over it, and yes i do hear the word spaz used a lot)

How can this be changed, or do you think it can't?

Words matter and of course we should all challenge anyone who uses derogatory labels for gender, skin colour, disability, race, sexual orientation.
I'm particularly shocked that words which demean women seem to have become OK again over the last decade. "Paki" is now seen as far more objectionable than most derogatory words used about women. "Paki" is hateful, but so are words that attack women. Yet very few people seem to notice or care that negative, insulting words referring to women have become the stuff of everyday conversation.

The school Hula's referring to has a policy on racist and homophobic language but not on sexist language - that illustrates my point. If you talk to people about rape, they will come out with what are, to me, astounding attitudes about women's sexual behaviour. The use of misgynistic language provides the background that supports sexism. Sadly the battles of feminism are not yet won - look at the rape conviction rates - and they never will be while we condone the use of insults based on gender.

yes fio I thought I saw that earlier but 2 posts have mysteriously been deleted. What is going on? And who has been sending crotch photos? Why would anyone do that?

Have just come back to this thread - HappyDaddy, no I didn't and I'm big enough to admit it. I have already said I was ignorant and clueless. Sometimes, these terms slip through the net but the point is, when it was pointed out to me, I was horrified and immediately deleted it from my "acceptable language" list.

If all that means I have no "common sense", so be it.

I agree that such terms as 'spaz' should be challenged. My partner (and at times I) work with people of varying disabilities. I can honestly say that those with CP are utterly demoralized and humiliated when they hear terms like this used in the mainstream.

It seems it's only because disabled people remain on the fringes of our society that people think they can say these things and not be challenged.

Don't want to come across as holier than thou but I think we owe it to them to push the boundaries and challenge such heartlessness until the issue is given the prominence it deserves.

I agree that some of these terms have become slang like many before them. I also DON'T agree with trying to prevent people from using certain words but imo the best way to change attitudes is first to challenge if there is intent to offend, second to educate if there is no intent to offend and third, as someone said earlier (daddycool?) to just make these words "uncool", yoof speak for unacceptable. Personally I don't find any words offensive and I use the FULL range of the English language, you c**ts! But I do understand that other people do find certain words offensive and that they are simply not appropriate in certain situations, we all edit our language depending on the situation, all of us except Chavs that is
Alan Partridge says Spaz in the episode with the fan but then he is ALan Partridge!
I am very against "banning" words or assuming that other people have the same sensibilities as I do (none). I rememebr years ago someone complaining to my sister about her swearing in a pub and she just said "well, don't come in a fucking pub then where people are relaxing and enjoying themselves"!

Davros, that maybe so but just because they are in the English language doesn't mean everyone should use them willy nilly, does it.

Flashingnose, I apologise for the tone of that post. I didn't mean to sound so aggressive.

davros was it you with the crotch showing or happydaddy?

Fio2, I have no idea what you're talking about, sorry.

ahhhh that would be because the two crotch relating posts have been deleted for some obscure reason

Lou33 - What is popbitch? I agree with you regarding the "spaz" word it makes my blood boil. My BIL and soon to be SIL are always calling each other by that name, a couple of weeks ago it was really winding me up and I had a go at them about it. They looked really sheepish but then the following weekend they were still using it. I think people are just stupid and insensitive. My BIL also says "paki" and it annoys him that I get so upset about it. He is of the view that because I am not asian it should not offend me. I have told dh that once ds is a little older (11 months) I will not let him be around BIL if he continues to use such disgusting language.

What I really wish is that there was an "Offensive Language" dictionary somewhere - some words seem to be OK, then offensive, then reclaimed so OK again. It's a minefield for those of us who try to avoid confrontation wherever possible.

Davros (it?s a classic that one by the way) no one is suggesting that we ?ban? words.

And I'm glad that you don't find any words offensive and feel able to shrug off insults easily. You speak for a powerful majority; it?s the minorities that need to be heard in this instance.

Within an oppressed group, pejorative terms can be appropriated and their meanings inverted but this is a complex process. Battles over language and the meaning of words dominate all discourse. For example, in the Vagina Monologues a woman responds to being called a cunt with a delighted ?thank you!?

And Steve Coogan has Alan Partridge saying such things to illustrate how much of a tosser he is. It?s a sophisticated joke. Alan Partridge is an utterly tragic character; it?s Steve Coogan who?s funny.

You?re right Dinosaur, it's a huge assumption and generalisation but y'know, average Joe, not an oppressed minority group such as the disabled or those with CP which terms such as 'spaz' are specifically aimed at or by association are meant as insults.

I run the risk of being wrong making such a generalisation, but I do it simply to illustrate a point. The challenge of such terms usually comes from within the group. Richard Prior's stand up in 70's for eg.

maybe it is because davrois is a Professor?

Eh?

Oh, yeah..

Erm, yes I know Alan Partridge is supposed to be a naff idiot, that's what I was saying!
And I am involved in a minority group, having a son who is severely autistic. Funnnily enough, my favourite Little Britain character is Anne, the "woman" who has mental health problems and/or learning disability...... or does she? We don't know!
DaddyCool, what do you propose to do about "unacceptable" words then? Unlike Lou I grew up in a very lefty/PC home, my parents met by both being members of the Communist Party! Maybe that's why I don't like the idea of clamping down on anything that is not PC, it can go much too far imo.

I know. Didn't mean it to sound offensive. Sorry if I'm coming across as a bit pious here but one guy we know, John who has CP, is just utterly mortified whenever he hears such a term. It's like a massive slap in the face and he just cant escape from the thought that he'll never have a girlfriend of a family of his own. And there's just no answer other than the usual platitudes.

Its easy for me to lecture, I know. Disabled people are still all but segregated from general society and as a consequence you don't often see the misery such terms cause first hand.

Not that I'm naive enough to think that would stop people making them anyway, but hey ho.

that is my husbands favourite charachter too professor davrois, he thinks it will be like dd

honestly i know spaz is offensive but I think it can be taken too far. My and my friend often laugh and take the mick over things that would most prob seem inappropriate but if we didnt laugh we would cry

Oh I agree Fio2! And really kids don't know any better, or some grownups fo that matter. But the thread was about Popbitch and the media should have more responsiblity in general, even if they're trying to be 'edgy'.

I made the assumption that everyone on MN knows that I have a disabled child and knows who I am, durr!! I'm like Fio, me and DH often make un-PC jokes and use "unacceptable" terminology. My son's school is called TreeHouse and we refer to it as OutOfYourTreeHouse, I know that could be offensive and I wouldn't say it willy nilly to other parents or other people but, as Fio says, you've just got to laugh sometimes. I do have a habit of making a joke of everything which some people find annoying and others find relaxing!!
What bothers me is not that words etc don't bother ME iyswim, but they upset someone like Lou so much. If someone finds something offensive then it IS offensive. I am a bit sheltered as I simply don't mix with people who would use Spaz in routine conversation so its not in my face. Its disgusting that Lou and others have to hear words like this said in such a way.
In a recent Woody Allen film he said something like "what? Do you think I've got special needs or something?" it didn't offend me but I did notice it and I didn't think it was funny, just unnecessary.
Big ramble!

Sorry Davros, I'm a newbie and am still a bit jumpy from the Wiltshire thread

Me and dp had the same kind of experience watching the Ali G movie a couple of years ago. Dp works with a group with learning difficulties, some of whom have Downs and they just love Ali G, all that smut is right up their street! But at one moment in the film he calls someone a mong and we just knew they'd be mortified.

I was doing some drama workshops with a group of kids last year who had varying conditions on the spectrum, by the way. We ended by putting on Romeo and Juliet (as dogs and cats!) It was a great hoot!