How do we educate people with regards to appropriate use of words?

[lou33]

I'm getting more and more depressed at the use of inappropriate words , mainly in this country, but i hear a lot coming from the states as well through films.

Specifically this morning I am talking of the word "spaz", it's used in popbitch today allegedly used by people at brooklyn beckham's old school, but in fact there are many terms i find equally offensive and unnecessary.

Is there anyone out there who can explain to me why it is funny to take the pi*s out of people for things they have no chice about, like disabilities and skin colour?

I know background and education have a big part to play, but i come from the sort of upbringing that you could theorise would make me more likely to use these awful negative terms, yet i just knew they were wrong , even as a child.

It makes me both sad and angry that i still read, see, hear this all around me (and yes i do take people to task over it, and yes i do hear the word spaz used a lot)

How can this be changed, or do you think it can't?

I've just read the whole thread and I think Lou, you're right, we do need to challenge use of language, it's important. I think ff's point (correct me if I'm wrong ff) is that some people use these terms sometimes (cor, general enough?) and absolutely don't connect them with their origin, i.e. it doesn't occur to them that spaz = spastic = someone with cp. It just doesn't. So ff's point was that the intent when using these words isn't always evil, even if the word itself is offensive. Am I right ff? I don't think that makes it ok of course, it doesn't. Words like this still are offensive, I don't think whether the person using it means to be offensive is the point really. And I do think the only way to change things is to challenge as often as possible, the people using them. So we SHOULD all email popbitch imo and point out that it isn't acceptable. I don't tihnk chav is as bad but neither do I think it's just ok because I don't think it's meant affectionately or kindly, it's a term to describe a certain section of the white British working class. If you wouldn't call someone by a term to their face (and I think this is the case for chav) then it's almost certainly either offensive or meant to be.

Lou, I don't think you can ask for a thread to be deleted even if you started it can you? It's not your thread, it's mumsnet's! Anyone can contribute to any thread, it doesn't belong to the thread starter imo.

Message withdrawn

I agree with you rnb, I do think it's totally unacceptable and I hope that came across in my post. I think it's unacceptable to use words like spaz whatever the intention/understanding of the person using the word.

you can www, but i agreed to leave it for now

But this is precisely the point I made towards the beginning of the thread. That, as time goes by, the origins of a word are lost and the word itself takes on a general meaning. People are raised thinking the word is OK because they have no idea of its original meaning.

E.g. take the word "idiot". We all use it quite freely. However, one meaning of it (not associated with it much these days) is someone with severe mental retardation. These days it's generally used to refer to someone who has been a bit senseless. So people use it quite happily, but shouldn't we all actually be objecting because it's referring to someone with a disability?

I think you need to look at the intent behind the use of a particular word. If the intent is to offend, then no amount of education will have any effect. However, if the intent is not malicious, then you have the opportunity to educate by challenging and hopefully that is one less person who will use that word in ignorance.

I disagree Freckle, I think you should challenge whatever the intent of the person who used the word.

have beent o sports day and returned to a fracas!

did you win the mummies' 30 yard dash Coddy?

not hey dont have it

last time they di i was bf ds3
gawd wot a sight

www, I'm not saying you shouldn't challenge if the intent is malicious. Just that any challenge is unlikely to have any effect in that instance.

Hmm, well, I see what you mean Freckle. But I think if you challenge someone who is using a word maliciously and if enough people do it then that person just might think twice the next time because it gradually becomes completely unacceptable to use the word publicly: someone will pick you up on it. And that's how words die out, surely?

There is a vast differnce in saying someone has a mental health problem to "Oi, you mental" type comments.

I think intent has everything to do with it. Through MN, I've discovered that I really shouldn't say "let's have a chinky". I was ignorant and clueless and mortified that I could have caused offence to anyone.

Didn't Scope used to be called The Spastics Society? So there must be people around who would still refer to spastics who have no idea that it's no longer an acceptable term. Obviously if you're dealing with someone spitting "spaz" in the direction of someone in a wheelchair, the intention is to hurt that person. I think there are an awful lot of people in this country who do their very best not to offend anyone but it's difficult to keep up with what's OK to say and what's not as they change constantly ("coloured" being a great example).

no response form pb lou

pb never do, I complained about a terrible paedo joke ages ago and said I didn't wish to recieve in any more, that didn';t last long though

well if you insist on reading such utter tosh

I am still bemused on fairyflys showing crotch talk is this what you and your croonies talk about too my dear ??!

Flashingnose, surely you had the common sense to realise that "chinky" was a derogatory term? It's like p*ki or the N word, there is no unintentional use or meaning to them.

Words like sp*z have been accepted by the masses as an acceptable "harmless" term. This does mean that the masses are wrong, though, not that the term really is "harmless".

To be serious again. I htink its starting at grass roots and educating kids in school. Personally if someone I knew used a term that I felt was derogatory or racist then I'd make a comment about it to them (school teacher in me coming out). I hate these terms. I do actually try to stamp on it in schools- try to make kids question themselves and what they've done. Oh plus I've emailed popbitch to tell them that I find it offensive and unacceptable

The children (age 11-18yo) at the school I taught at regularly used the terms "spaz" and "mong". I hate it with a passion and I always brought them up on their use - along with lecture of why not to use it etc, and gto make them think about why not.

But I asked the Deputy Head if there was something we could do as a school about it; his response was so lame. To do with kids hearing it at home, just being a saying and not knowing what it meant - therefore not intended as discriminatory, etc. In other words, he was prepared to do nothing about it - in my eyes condoning i. I was so saddened by it. I did manage to get one head of year to agree with me and back me up when discipling some lads over it's use. have tpoo say also that it was the older ones who used it most

I have had a hunt around the archives and it is revealing to see how much of this there is if you look for it and that is amongst Mumsnetters, not school children...so not surprising children say things.

Spaz is thrown ito the chat, also mong (and not always as a typo for long) and also schizo, schizoid, schizophrenic, psycho or is that acceptable? I was surprised to say the least...

Just read more and someone mentioned that those using the term "saz" do not link it with the term "spastic". Certinly this was the case at school. When I spoke to the kids involved about it, to berate, punish or whatever, I always asked them about the term "spaz" and it's meaning. Most did not link the two at all, and several were alarmed when it was pointed out. They said that it was just a word they had heard others used in the past, and they used it as a result.

They used it to insult one another, usually ina joking type way rather than a nasty way. But many did not know what the term meant.

I think that is exactly the reason why school should have been prepared to take this matter up and speak to the children in a more formal way about it. The school had a policy for use of racist or homophobic name calling; why is this any different? As I said, I was so cross

Hulababy, it's the old adage isn't it? Don't use words that you don't understand. Thing is, most of us would have very little to say if we all did that.

Come on, the only thing I want to know is who is sending pics of who's crotch to whom,?

???