I need advice on a very big decision (very long, sorry)

[lilibet]

The situation is this:- last year I left my violent husband taking my children with me and moving into rented property. The finances are now on the verge of being sorted out over 18 months after I first filed for divorce. My ex has refused to move out of the former maritial home and there was no way that I could make him as it was in joint names and I have also had to continue to pay half of the mortgage due to it being in joint names. This coupled with extortianate rent adn the fact that my husband wouldn't contribute to food etc while i was with him has lead to me getting around 10k in debt. The house has been valued at 135k but does need some structural work doing to it.
My ex earns approximately two and a half times what I earn, has approximately 15k in savings and is 51. The proposal that he has put forward is this:- I get the house and 19% of his pension. He gets his savings, the remainder of his pension, both policies, which at the moment have a surrender value of 12k but in 2014 have a redemption value of 56k and I give him 3k. The maximum that I can lend is 70k taking into account my salary, tax credit payments, and maintenance, if i take on the house 56k of this will go to paying of the existing mortgage, 10k to settling my debts,3k to him, which would leave me with 1k to pay my solicitors fees(!!) and buy furniture that I need and get repairs done. The other added problem is this, my tenancy is up on my house on the 31st July and it is not being renewed due to the owner of the house wanting to move back in. There is little or no property in this area, I was incredibly lucky to get this house and would find it well nigh impossible to get another. There is no one with whom we can move in, so I am very soon going to be homeless. If I accept the offer I can be back in my old house by the time this tenancy is up. If we put the house on the market I have nowhere to live in the mean time. If I move back in with the intention of selling, I feel that this would be dreadfully unfair on the children as they love the house and where it is and have freinds in the street, two of them have lived their all their lives till I took them away. My solicitor is leaning towards acceptance, because she feels that if we go to court it will cost about 7k, and could take up to 6 months for a decision to be reached and I may not be any better off. My ex needs to buy a house and becasue of his age can only take out a 9 year mortgage and has been quoted as £900 for 76k so his solicitor is saying that he needs as much capital as possible now which is why I am beig offered a share of his pension which I will only get when I retire in 20 years. This is why my solicitor says accept because a judge would think that this way we both get a house. In 9 years however, he will have no mortgage, a house adn still quite a large pension and 2 nice endownments to look forward to and i will still be saving up to get the eaves fixed!
So, sorry for being so long, but what in hells name should I do? Accept and think that at least we have a roof over our heads or turn it down and risk being no better off at teh end of court proceedings, or maybe even a lot worse off. I don't have time for more offers and counter offers becasue of the tenancy thing and of course getting more into debt every month, and of course he knows that I will be homeless soon wit the children and won't move out until everythign is finalised.
This is probably going to be really long when I read it back but even if no one can be arsed reading all the way through it (and if you have got this far my heartiest congratulations!) it has helped me get it straight in my mind typing it all out.

aaarrrgghhh, just looked at, my God IT IS SOOOO LONG!!

lilbet - what a decision! I feel totally unqualified to offer a vaild opinion on your decision but can offer my deep sympathies for you being in this difficult and stressful situation. I hope someone will come along and offer some practical advice for you - if not, if I were in your shoes and not 100% happy with the corner you are backed into, I would make an appointment with another solicitor (many offer opening half hour free of charge for advice once a week) and ask for a second opinion, either that or citizens advice. Just to check that your solicitor is advising you correctly and not trying to get you to follow the easiest course of action for her.Gut feeling is not to act just because you feel you have to - rushed decisions are just too risky with something so important as this. Can you talk to your landlord and ask for a sympathietic small extension on your let to give you time? Worth a shot.

Sorry to hear about all this - it sounds like a complete nightmare.

Is there some sort of financial adviser who could talk you through the implications of the offer and what, say, the pension is worth in "real terms"?

I have no knowledge in this but going on gut feeling, there are a few bits that would niggle me...

1. I thought you are technically entitled to 50% of his pension so 19% seems a little low.
2. The endowments. Were these intended to pay off the mortgage at the end of the term? For your ex to keep them seems a bit off.
3. Could you insist that the structural work is completed on the house by your ex as part of the deal on the grounds that it is better for this to be done when the children are not in the house?

Ok, break down your message into chunks and deal with them one by one.
Re you being homeless, this will not happen. Get in touch with your local women's centre and see what they can offer. You could stay temporarily in a women's refuge until this is all sorted out, they are not as bad as they sound and it gives you a bit of breathing space. Your women's centre will provide you will all the options.

Finances - I would seek a second opinion. Again the women's centre can sort you out a free solicitor, one who specialises in women's causes, who will go over your details again. Your husband was violent to you and this should be taken into account, as the more sympathetic the judge, the more likely you are to have them on your side. Can you provide any evidence of his abuses? Whatever happens, he should pay you maintenance for each of your children until they reach adulthood, so you should never be left poverty-stricken.

I would go against your solicitors advice and seek a second opinion. Most cases are won in the woman's favour, particularly where there has been abuse in the past. Also, as you have dependant children you will never be left homeless. Your council has a duty to provide shelter for you in any case. It may not be the Ritz but as I said before, it will give you much needed breathing space. Also have you been to family mediation? They can also offer you advice, as can the CAB. The law is on your side, don't accept his offer, strive for a better one.

No advice to offer Lillibet other than agreeing with the advice of getting a second opinion before settling for something that you feel uneasy about.

Thinking of you and hoping this gets sorted out.

he will buy a house now and the morgage will be paid off in nine years as he is getting a nine year mortage, sorry thats what I meant!!

lilibet, yes, second opinion definitely. good luck.

I don't believe any judge will think this is a fair offer, I personally would go to court and not worry about the case bill as it will be covered when you get the fair deal you are entitled to.

How about suggesting to your solicitor that you are not happy and would like to go to a mediator.They are trained people who will look at both of your situations and work with you to come up with a solution ammicable for both of you. I found this emotionally hard but it got ex to look at his first offer and see the situation he was leaving for his Dd.
In my opinion solicitors know nothing. If you are not happy with it seek more advice.

Agree with the second opinion bit, Lilibet. Sounds like a raw deal to me. Good luck with it all.xxxxxx

Lillibet.
Get a new solicitor. Any decent one would never suggest you accept such a crap offer, and should have already got you back in the marital home - he was violent, you have the kids, house is in joint names - why should he stay there and you pay rent?

You are entitled to 50% of his pension, so him offering you 19% does not make up in any way for him getting more capital. You are being fleeced.

lilibet, sorry you're in this situation. Hmm, I had to read your message a couple of times to try to work out what is being offered. Sounds to me as if:

HE GETS:

• 81% of his pension
• To keep £15k in cash
• Another £3k in cash from you
• Policies with a surrender value of £12k now or 56k if he waits
• The ability to carry on earning his salary - no child care issues etc

YOU GET:

• 19% of his pension
• No cash
• £10k debts
• Add another £3k debt due to lump sum paid to ex
• No policies
• The house, which you never stopped paying for anyway, with a 56k mortgage (if I've understood correctly) and no policy to pay it off, so a repayment mortgage on a salary 2 and a half times less than his

And this is a house and your children HAD to leave because HE was violent and wouldn't get out?

Right, looking at that, does it seem fair to you? It doesn't to me. I know that sometimes we don't make these decisions based on fairness but based on not having to fight any more or on needing a quick resolution, as you do. But I'd agree with whoever said don't make a quick decision here - this is too important. I also think you should get a second opinion. Presumably you were forced to leave the house, despite the fact that you had 3 children, and this is his fault, not yours. Most of the time in these cases legal advice would be not to leave the house but I assume you had no choice because of his violence.

Also, if he is 51 he should be able to get a mortgage for more than 9 years, based on a retirement age of 65. That's 14 years by my calculation! But anyway, quite honestly, who cares where he lives? He's the violent one, he's the one with the higher salary, he can sort himself out. Since he doesn't have the children to house I would hope a court would also take the view that he won't really have a problem with housing (but this is based on my emotional response - I have no idea what the legal position is). Of course his solicitor is saying he needs as much capital as possible, that's what s/he's paid to do - get the best possible deal for her client. I'm not sure why your solicitor is urging you to take this except that it does get you the house but, as I said above, big deal - I think you should also get the policies to pay off the mortgage (if that was the intention when they were taken out). Alhough ks is right, endowments really do need to be looked at carefully right now. I really don't see why you should give him £3k either, in fact that sounds like a downright cheeky offer!

I don't know what a judge would say but see another solicitor and see what they think. Good luck and try not to panic. Are there any friends who could help with somewhere to stay while you're stuck? I bet your ex knows all of your circumstances and hopes you will panic and accept this shoddy offer. So he's still a bully, despite your having left him. HTH.

Please do not accept - why are you not in the house (listen to me I was in the same situation) go to a different solicitor and get yourself back in - once you are do not under any circumstances leave - you will be able to get an order to get him out of the house, due to violcence there is no way that you could live there with him blah blah blah - don't mean to sound callous and manipulative but lay it on with a trowel - there is no one to help women out there but all these family's need fathers groups for kids - maybe we should set one up!

He is by law tied to providing a roof over yours and the kids heads until they are out of full time education.

Whare abouts do you live - I will try and get you some info - I have read every legal page on the web and spoken to lots of people after getting my life and confidence back thanks to all of the mumsnetters. As for the legal fees - go and get legal aid, I am sure that you could in your situation, you need to speak to a good solicitor and as has been said there are few about - although mine came through for me when I went to court.

I don't mena listen to me - as in you must do what I say - I mean listen to me spouting on when I have been through the same thing and asked the same question over and over again - just read what I had written and sounded wrong!!

Oh, and I haven't even factored in that on your two-and-a-half-times less than his salary, you, presumably have to pay some childcare?

excellent post, www.

Wow, www, super post. Lilibet, you have done so well to keep your life going and do the best for your children, on moral and legal grounds you should definitely get a second opinion (or get www to come with you and give him what for...).
The very best of luck in sorting things out, you really deserve a break now.

Many thanks to everyone, WWW, that was one of the best posts I have ever read on here. Rhubarb I am going on the council waiting list, it only becomes desperate on the 30th July!!
Before I started with my present solicitor I had 2 free half hours, both told me that unless I pressed charges, I couldn't get him out of the house. We had the police round but I wouldn't let the children see their father taken away so the police just talked to him but there is now an official record of his behaviour along with doctors reports on my injuries. Your posts have given me a lot more confidence for when I next see my solicitor, which is on Monday so I have no chance to arrange a second opinion before then.
It has been suggested that I get a barristers advice as they see how these things are decided in the court all the time. My solicitor came on the recommendation of a friend who had used her thru a messy divorce and she had got her a really good result. So thanks again everyone, I shall keep you posted. xx

If your name is on the mortgage he cannot keep you out of the house - please ask a different solicitor - he also should be paying you maintenance and child support - is he doing so??

I think maybe that you could get him out of the house if you have witness statements and logs of the injuries that he caused you.

Bottom line is you are the main carer for the children and the law is actually there for their benefit in cases like this.

I think you are being extremely brave but you should not carry the emotional and financial burden for all of this. Men too often moan about what a hard deal they get but it seems to me that more often than not this is not the case.

Don't give up - we are all thinking of you and if you need anything just ask.

Look on the internet there is a guy called David Terry who may be able to help you.

Do not agree - give your solicitor a letter stating what you want and let them hash it out together - you should at least get 70% of everything if you are going to have the kids in your residence. Do not get involved in argueing let your counsel do that for you - when they say he has offered so and so if it is not right you tell them and stick to your guns.

Lilibet, you don't have to go through this solicitor just because your friend recommended her. If I were you I would cancel Mondays appointment and book in to see the CAB instead or the family mediation service. They can recommend solicitors who will really have your best interests at heart, something your present solicitor does not seem to have. They can also advise you on costs. I have no doubt you will be entitled to legal aid so don't worry about having to pay for anything.

It is an unfair deal as everybody has said and I don't know why your solicitor wants you to accept it, maybe it's the easiest way out for her? It would save her a lot of paperwork and time if you accepted his deal without having to go to court. She may have another case in the sidelines that she feels may pay more than yours and so is wanting to wrap up yours asap. Whatever her reasons, cancel that appointment and get someone new. The first thing they should do is get you back in the marital home. You can have a restraining order put on him, and your kids do not have to see him being ordered out by the police, they do not have to be there. He has the money to rent, you don't.

Be selfish about this, your kids need a decent future and after what you have been through, you need a secure future too. Seize this chance to fight back. I am positive that any case you present in court will win in your favour, and what a sweet victory that would be! Don't give in. We're thinking of you.

Wise words Rhubarb. It is an opportunity not for revenge but for a decent chance at a new start. I completely understand your desire to have it all over with and not put the children through it but you are entitled and deserve more. I think it's a pathetic attempt on his part and he will get his punishment in time - they always do these people. He doesn't warrant any of your energy except that of getting rid of him and having that tiny bit more extra strength to get yourself a fair deal. You are not asking for everything - just exactly what you are entitled to nothing more nothing less. My friend is a family lawyer and I remember her saying to me that those who put forward a reasonable offer and want what they are entitled to will be seen as not wasting courts time and are more likely to succeed. You have everything on your side and he has nothing. It isn't even a case of access and maintainence where it can get tricky when it comes to finances can't it.
I totalyy agree about the CAB, they are free and very experienced in these matters and realise that time is of the essence. I used them over the phone once and they were fantastic as they are often retired professionals and have very useful connections. I sent them a cheques for £5 - all I could afford at the time and that was pushing it!
I wish you the very best of luck and strength to come out the other side of the tunnel. I think you are well on your way through it!
xxxxxx