This is who the Tory Party are, read this if you are even considering giving them your vote.

[Rhubarb]

A few facts about the Conservative Party that you should know if you are being persuaded by their talk of change.

David Cameron was born in London, his father was a stockbroker and his mother the daughter of Sir William Mount. His ancestors from his father?s side hail from bankers and stockbrokers, it?s how they made their fortune. Cameron went to Eton and then Oxford where he was a member of the notorious Bullingdon Club. He has stated publicly that he is a huge fan of Thatcher. Unsurprisingly he voted against the hunting ban, being a hunter himself. He has been criticised by his own party members for being too Etonian and out of touch with reality.

In 1989 Cameron accepted an invite to South Africa paid for by an anti-sanctions lobby. This was whilst Nelson Mandela was still in prison. He was quoted as describing the trip thus: ?it was all terribly relaxed, just a little treat, a perk of the job.?

Cameron?s wife Samantha is the daughter of Sir Reginald Adrian Berkeley Sheffield and the Viscountess Astor. Their combined wealth is estimated at £30m plus.

George Osborne is the eldest son and heir of Sir Peter Osborne and was originally named Gideon. He was educated at Oxford and he too was a member of the Bullingdon Club. He has two children who are privately educated.

He was caught up in the expenses row after he ?flipped? his second home in order to pay less tax, the Lib Dems reckoned he got away with £55,000 by doing this. He also claimed for a mortgage that was paid, chauffeur fares and two copies of a DVD of his own speech on, of all topics, ?value for taxpayers money?. He subsequently paid it back.

He also tried to solicit a £50,000 donation from a Russian multi-billionaire back in 2008.

So there are 3 members of Oxford?s Bullingdon Club in the Tory Party right now, all from the same year. Isn?t that nice for them? A club that was noted for it?s drunken antics, willful destruction of restaurants (run by working class people), bars and windows and it?s arrogance in the face of the law.

Of the Tory Party itself, there are currently 17 Conservative women MPs compared to 95 in the Labour Party.
Of the occupations of MPs, in the 2005 general election there were 35 manual workers in the Labour Party compared to 2 in Conservative. Labour had 32 school teachers, Tories had 6.
In the same election there were 13 non-white Labour MPs and just 2 Conservative MPs.
Of those going to fee-paying schools, in 2005 118 Tory MPs came from fee-paying schools compared to 63 Labour MPs. 43% of Tory MPs were Oxbridge education compared to 16% of Labour.

So whenever anyone tries to tell you that the Conservatives do live in the real world and are all for making ordinary peoples lives better, quote these figures at them.

Me, I might vote Lib Dems.

FFS, when did going to Oxford or Cambridge become a badge of shame.

Only in Britain.

Thank you YouKnowHumanBones.

Again, someguy, read the OP.

Geez.

Sorry Someguy, but I don't think that's remotely comparable. How is lashing out at someone who attacks you the same as going out for the evening with the express intention of smashing up someone's business?
Do you actually know anything about the Bullingdon Club or do you think it was just a few jolly student japes?

I've been lurking today, but can't any more.

So DC went to Eton and Oxford. SO WHAT?!
So his wife comes from a privileged and wealthy background. SO WHAT?!

I just don't understand why people are so hung up on this. I went to private schools, and then on to university (applied to Cambridge, but decided on balance to go to Bham because it was closer to home!) Same with my brother. My parents (decidedly NOT wealthy) scrimped and saved to send us both to the best schools they could afford. We ended up with a great education, both now work hard in our chosen professions, are married with kids and both plan to go down the independent school route with our children. To us, it's normal - you want the best for your children, so you do your utmost to ensure they get it within your means.

I don't understand why people think that the Conservatives today should be the same as the Conservatives under Maggie Thatcher - any more than the Labour party of today bears any relation to the Labour party of 1979 (except in its propensity to spend money!) Things have moved on. The world is a completely different place. Except that, yet again, the Conservatives find themselves faced with the prospect of clearing up the mess left behind by the other lot, and getting themselves pilloried in the process.

Also I don't see why people should think that just because someone was a member of a daft drinking club at university (when, let's face it, students aren't much more than overgrown kids) this is going to colour their every move and thought when they become an adult. Surely people grow out of rubbish like this. Everyone does stupid things as a kid - be that stealing traffic cones, or being rowdy outside pubs - just look down every high street in the country on a Friday night, for God's sake!!!!!!

Did you listen to DC's speech yesterday? I caught the second half, and it all sounded like complete common sense to me. I know it's just words until proven otherwise, but here's the end bit (apologies for blatant quotation):

?I see a country where more children grow up with security and love because family life comes first. I see a country where you choose the most important things in life - the school your child goes to and the healthcare you get. I see a country where communities govern themselves - organising local services, independent of Whitehall, a great handing back of power to people.

I see a country with entrepreneurs everywhere, bringing their ideas to life - and life to our great towns and cities. I see a country where it?s not just about the quantity of money, but the quality of life - where we lead the world in saving our planet. I see a country where you?re not so afraid to walk home alone, where you?re safe in the knowledge that right and wrong is restored to law and order. I see a country where the poorest children go to the best schools not the worst, where birth is never a barrier."

I want to live in that country. At the moment the UK is NOTHING LIKE THIS!!!!!!!!!! Call me idealistic. But when it comes to the point where the idea of moving to another country is intensely appealing because the state of my own is so dire, then something NEEDS to be done. And i don't see GB and his lot doing anything to make it better.

All IMHO of course.

(steps back off soapbox)

Right, I'm orf to quaff some champers dahlings, back laters, ciao!

I shall repeat:

The point I am making is that, of all the Parties, the Tories are the ones who are the furthest removed from ordinary life.

I agree with you, as a socialist, that no Party is going to fully represent us. I've not said that I'm voting Labour, nor have I said if I have ever voted Labour. Just that they have the least Oxbridge educated MPs, no Bullingdon club members, more women MPs and more MPs from ethnic minorities.

Therefore they are better placed than the Tories to represent us.

Just a logical argument.

Again, someguy, read the OP.

I was referring to your previous post saying that the lower number of Oxbridge-educated MPs in the Labour party makes them better to represent us.

The problem with the OP is that it makes you sound both bitter and stupid, if you come on here and say I don't like the tories or DC because of a,b,c policies that they are going to implement and it is going to have x,y,z effect on the country then fair enough but to get all worked up because DC went to Eton, went to Oxford and was stupid enough in his youth to belong to a ridiculous club is just ranting and your points about the number of women or non-white MPs just gets lost.

Oxford, Cambridge, privileged background, wanting the best for your kids - no problem. Entirely laudable. It is what having all those advantages and then joining the Bullingdon Club says about someone - the utter contempt for the ordinary working man.

Someguy, you're missing the point. If the majority of those in Government have the same background and education, then they are less able to see things from the point of view of those who are not.

If all of the Labour party had no University education and grew up on council estates, then the problem would be exactly the same - unrepresentative of British society.

What nasty mud-slinging.

So David Cameron went to Eton and is wealthy.... so what? He didn't choose what family to be born into.

Nor did George Osbourne - who, incidentally, attended the same school as Harriet Harman.

I honestly don't think their backgrounds should be held against them. Surely, if you aspiure to a "classless" society, then this should cut both ways?

I'm less impressed by the Bullington clan membership. Then again, Cameron has said he regrets it and is embarassed by it. I did things when I was at University that I now regret.

Peter Mandelson gave trade concessions worth up to £50m a year to Russia?s richest man who has entertained him on his superyacht. The same Russion from whom Osbourne tried to elicit a £50 000 donation...

Having been forced to resign from the government twioe, Mandelson has been given a peership simply to save Brown's political career and is the de facto prime minister. What a great example of a non-corrupt party and government.

Tony Blair attended Fettes - current fees are above £6000 per term as a day pupil. High even by "normal" independent school standards. Just an "ordinary guy"...

Great thread Rhubarb.

I will be voting Lib Dem, too.

Nick Clegg may be privately educated, but he is a socialist.

Cameron, Osborne et al will only run the country for the benefit of people like them.

Look at the poverty, unemployment, state of the NHS when the Tories were last in power .

No, I don't think I am. There is a history going back to Plato of trying to get the most capable leaders, not the most representative ones. Pulling someone off Jeremy Kyle and saying 'come be an MP' would not be doing us any favours.

Don't forget that Marx, and many others who were concerned with poverty, were very middle class. Do you think The Guardian has a 'representative' staff? Of course not, they are mostly privately educated, Polly Toynbee went to Badminton School and Oxford, but still finds the time to write about tax credits every week.

Like I said, only in Britain that a decent education would be seen as a career impediment.

Someguy, a decent education should be available to all, not just those who can afford it.

(People like DC)

Someguy your argument is facetious. Of course you would not pull someone off JK, that is ridiculous, and not a little offensive to those from poorer backgrounds for whom private education is not an option.

Are you really suggesting that only those with a private education are intelligent enough to rule? Because that is what your post appears to be suggesting.

Again, it is not that those with a private education should not be in Government, it is that they should not be the only ones there.

Since when was Oxbridge private?

I think you're getting your class battles confused.

And Rhuby old chap, I did read your OP, but I think you miss my point. These guys from whatever party are not ordinary people, they belong to a different class, they are Politicians. They WANT power over us, they will DO or SAY anything to gain it. They will PRETEND to be like you but they are not; viz
"Nick Clegg went to private school but he's a socialist really , I'll vote for him".

It is up to you to decide on the party you vote for and put into power over you, and the level of interference in your life you can put up with in exchange for letting someone exercise that power.

But really,all the time, Alan Johnson/Gideon OSborne/Vince Cable are the same lizard with a different mask, gasping for the power they need to exist.

But their school background or wealth or connections are, for me, entirely irrelevant.

And before you say it, I'm not a cynical person, I genuinely believe this.

Someguy are you really going to focus in on that? We're obviously discussing those who are, shall we say, separated from a large cross-section of society by going through a private education system and then on to Oxbridge. Those going there from a comprehensive school would be more likely to have had a more varied classroom in school, and with it more empathy for those from other social strata.

This is getting boring.

I wouldn't believe every stereotype you read about Oxford and Eton. I'm from a normal background, and somehow blagged my way into Oxford. When I got there I met plenty of terrifyingly intelligent/surprisingly thick/creative/dull-as-ditch water/privileged/working class hero types, like anywhere else, but mostly it was a bunch of overworked young kids desperately trying not to feck up the opportunity of lifetime.

Yes, there is an obnoxious element, but it's a minority, like anywhere else. But there are also a 'knowing' few who enjoy the notoriety and the fact that the press LOVES anti-Ox stories and would do things to generate them.

Also met DH there, an old Etonian. Most people's reaction to that fact is "Really?!". He doesn't exactly waft around in tailcoats complaining about the proletariat.

He went on a full scholarship - a surprising number of assisted places are offered there, it's not the axis of English aristocratic evil, although there are a higher than average no. of freaks there.

The one thing Eton and Ox do have is a strong political awareness, so if you want to debate/join a party/network/canvass etc you can learn and take those skills to mainstream politics. Would be bloody great if more teenagers and students read real newspapers instead of celeb twaddle and those infuriating ad-filler-style TV news bulletins..

Cat, I don't believe they are same lizard at all.

Different people feel differently about socialism, capatilism, private school, grammar school etc - and they join the party that most fits with their views.

If Clegg felt the same way as Cameron he'd a Tory (and would be much more likely to gain the power you say he so craves)

30andlurking. I like your post. It ain't profound nor nothing. But I does.

catinthehat, I do think you miss the point though.

Yes you can say that all MPs are the same, corrupt, selfish bullies. In fact I have a very good friend who is a Labour councillor. Earlier this year he had the opportunity to run for MP, he refused because he says they are all corrupt bullies and his mental health would suffer if he had to join them. He's a lovely chap, bit of a socialist himself really.

It's a bit grim is reality at times.

But I state once again that if you have a party where a high number of it's members, i.e. nearly half, were privately educated and could afford to go to Oxbridge, then you have a party who will find it difficult to identify with those people who were state educated, didn't go to Uni because they couldn't afford it and now work for the minimum wage.

Add that to the ridiculously low numbers of women Tory MPs or MPs from ethnic minorities within that party, and you really do have a party who does not represent the majority of people in this country.

And don't think I'm a Labour supporter, I'm not.

I went to Cambridge, there was a posh girl who was on LSD the whole time and left, a Turkish guy from grimmest Moss Side (brought us 1/4 kg of soap bar), a girl from Dominica who spent hours stewing and currying things, and otherwise some fairly normal middle class types. Don't remember seeing any landed gentry at all.