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Our baby died due to failings in NHS care. Any mumsnet troops out there willing and able to help me force change?

175 replies

bubble99 · 30/04/2005 22:47

One of our healthy, term twins died recently due to total mismanagement of care caused primarily by understaffing. I have posted at length about this on 'Miscarriage and Bereavement'.

I would now like to start a campaign to raise awareness of the chronic understaffing in midwifery services in London and surrounding areas where the cost of living is high.

In particular, I would like the whole issue of London and Outer London Weighting to be urgently reviewed. It seems insane that hospitals are shelling out millions to pay for agency midwives and nurses when the logical course of action would be to substantially increase the allowance paid to staff working in areas where property prices/rents are higher. This would hopefully increase recruitment and retention of staff. In addition, nurse/midwives homes which have been sold off to private developers need to be replaced so that student midwives/nurses can afford to train and live in these areas.

Anyone out there prepared to help me with some research? We are prepared to use our own tragic case to highlight the issue in the national media.

If our son's death means that you and your unborn baby are safe during labour then his death will have not been in vain.

OP posts:
WideWebWitch · 01/05/2005 06:50

Bubble, have you thought about approaching the NCT? This is exactly the sort of thing they should be putting their weight behind imo (terrible understaffing in midwifery and the results) but I have no idea whether it is the sort of thing they do.

Twiglett · 01/05/2005 07:05

maybe one of our freelance journalists could contact any editors they know?

snafu · 01/05/2005 07:07

Bubble, hopefully some useful links here including agenda for change, assoc of radical midwives, RCM and Nursing and Midwifery Council. Plus links to relevant journals and a database for searching govt reports.

UKMidwifery Yahoo group here Excellent group, very supportive, some influential and well-respected names posting regularly.

Student Midwives Sanctuary contact some current Kingston/London students and newly-qualifieds here?

HTH. Anything I can do, don't hesitate to ask.

charleepeters · 01/05/2005 09:09

i will be happy to help you and mr bubble le me know what i can do

hub2dee · 01/05/2005 09:54

In hunker's first pdf link there is one part. relevant line:

"Kingston Hospital has spent more than £6 million on agency nursers, almost £5 million more than they had budgeted for"

Repeated Source for clarity: Source

hub2dee · 01/05/2005 09:59

Hunker's report is from an pressure group with research services which may be v. relevant. Info about their Director is here . I'd be happy to shout you an individual sub if you want it, just need your address.

Aragon · 01/05/2005 10:03

AIMS will certainly tackle some of the issues for you. Check out their website as posted below.

bubblerock · 01/05/2005 10:05

Hi Bubble, I don't know if this will help but I found this info on the Deputy prime ministers website about key worker living
here

MissChief · 01/05/2005 10:10

could also contact Health Service Journal - I'm sure they'd be interested in taking up this issues.

www.hsj.co.uk

I know you mentioned contacting the Guardian - have you checked thro archived articles/links etc from their Society page? Might be helpful resource.

If you're in Kingston - could contact the university - lots of contacts with the hosp and there may be a staff member/research student exploring this issue already.

Aragon · 01/05/2005 10:12

You are so right about the issues you are raising bubble - the more I sit here and think about it the more I am thinking "yes - this really needs raising".

hatsoff · 01/05/2005 10:18

hi bubble, well done for doing something positive. i dont think theres many on mn with a story quite like yours but there are certainly many - including me - with stories of poor treatment in labour. why dont you start a thread asking people if they are prepared to talk to a journalist then you could provide a journo with a list of name
and contact details of real people for them to interview. they always need real stories to mix in with the more factual stuff. if youd like me to i dont mind starting the thread, and compiling a list, which i would think should include a one sentence description of the experience, contact details and whether people want to be anonymous or not. any journos think this is a good idea?

bubblerock · 01/05/2005 10:23

Here's another link listing agencies used by the NHS in london and info about the London Agency Project

here

bubble99 · 01/05/2005 12:02

Wow. I am touched that so many of you have posted so much info and support. Can't help but think that hub's suggestion that I contact someone who has an interest in securing change and will have stats/facts to hand may make this an easier campaign. Radical Midwives and NCT seem likely contenders. I'll contact our local MP, tabling an Early Day Motion (Is that a pre-dawn poo ) which would be a cross party thing seems like a good idea. I'll post more this evening, when I'll have been able to read everything properly. The boys are clamouring to go swimming now and we'd better go before they start climbing the walls.

OP posts:
bonym · 01/05/2005 12:17

Bubble - I have recently been speaking to a Guardian journalist for a piece she is doing on birth choices. She writes a lot of maternity and health articles for them and may well be interested in your story. If you CAT me I will give you her email address ( I will check with her first)

berolina · 01/05/2005 12:19

Bubble, let me know if I can do anything to help (am over in Germany but willing to do what I can).

popsycal · 01/05/2005 12:21

bubble
please let me know if there is anythig i can do
i gave birth to ds2 literally a few weeks after you and would really like to help in some way

marthamoo · 01/05/2005 13:00

Likewise, bubble - CAT me if there's anything I can do.

soapbox · 01/05/2005 13:05

Bubble - please include me on your list of helpers

Let me know what I can do to help and vice versa if I think of anything I will post it here

mancmum · 01/05/2005 14:04

I totally support this action and would like to help in anyway I can... I do live in the north west and am not sure if you are just focusing on the london issue but there is a chronic shortage of midwives up here as well... my friend was turned away from her hospital when she went into labour and had to go to a different one 12 miles away...

My friend lost her baby at birth recently and I know the agony you are going thru so anything to prevent this happening is worth doing..

Mirage · 01/05/2005 14:43

I'd love to help if I can-I'm in the East Midlands.

Spacecadet · 01/05/2005 16:50

bubble, not local to london, but cambridge, i posted at length on your other thread and repeatedly used to complain at work when we were sent agency nurses, hospitals lose their star ratings if they dont manage their budgets properly,yet they shell out god knows how much for agency nurses, why not pay nhs staff a better wage, thus they will have more nhs staff, no shortages, its so simple as to be ridiculous, why dont they take it on board? nurses and midwives are usually paid a cost of living allowance which reflects the area they live in, i can assure you, it doesnt even touch the sides. please let me know if there is anything i can do to help.

Newbarnsleygirl · 01/05/2005 16:58

Have missed this somehow.

I'll help Bubble. I'm up in South Yorkshire but let me know if there is anything I can do.

glitterfairy · 01/05/2005 17:02

Have you tried this site for information on the Trusts and staffing? It gives a view of staffing and compares it to other hospitals in the area.

drfoster

Fio2 · 01/05/2005 17:05

bubble99I am sorry for you loss, this may or may not be the place to say this but we (me and my h) are pretty sure my daughter severe disability was caused by a mis mangaed birth. She is almost 6 now and the search for ansers has not come beckoning on our door. it will be a long hard road I tell you. People lie to you even if you are spilling your guts out onto the carpet, dont ask me why but they do. i wish you every success but I dont know what will come I so feel for you xx

Flossam · 01/05/2005 20:01

Hi Bubble. Glad to hear you are wanting to do something, you are so brave trying to make a positive out of a negative. Can I help with my personal opinions? Because I don't know how much of this is really just a London problem or a national one. I'm going to kind of work this out as I go along which might mean it's rather rambled so please excuse me.

Nurses and Midwives pay is comparable, as you know. Thats why I feel I can speak a bit really! I moved here from Bristol, where I worked for the first year as a D grade. There I earned a little over £16,000 at the time and brought home about a £1000 a month after tax, pension, etc. My rent for a reasonable, one bedroom, quite central flat was £400 a month. Therefore £40% of my wages.

In London, we lived reasonably far outish in West Ham. My pay went up much more than I expected, a mixture, admittedly of nights and the London allowance. I brought home 1550 a month and rented a flat for 675, this works out at 43%. Hmm, actually not as good as I thought!! But I found I had sooo much more disposable income. I had a pay rise of a third, basically. transport was more, but only about 20-30 a month. Bristol is an expensive place to travel.

We can't afford a mortgage up here, however. We think we could just about afford one in Bristol. DP is a police officer and we could qualify for key worker housing. However, we are reluctant as so unsure of the property market. Plus, the only place we have been offered to live here backs out on to one of the most notorious council estates in the country. I don't feel that investing in a property there would be a wise choice, and is not an area where I would be wishing to bring up my son long term.

Now we are trying to bring up our rather unexpected bundle of joy things have so far been reasonable but I think will become more of a struggle. Outside factors have meant that I have had to get a bigger loan, we are moving house, rented, but the house prices for two bedroomed flats have risen so much since we moved to this one seven months ago, we are being priced out of an already cheap area. We have had to rent unfurnished, and at the end of six months mat leave is a cost we really couldn't absorb any other way.

Perhaps if the pay during training was better this would make quite a big impact on how they manage post training? I worked my arse off during my training, frequently working 12-13 days in a row just to keep my head above water. I left with £3000 debt, which was comparably good, but is little different now.

I find it hard to swallow that as a PC, DP has many days where little is done, and is payed several thousand pounds more than me. He also benefits from free transport and a better pension.

To give your campaign more credence and to gain more support I don't see how well you would be able to differentiate between nurses and midwives (I hope you understand this isn't for personal reasons at all). After all we are on the same pay scales, midwifes already go in above nurses (Grades E of F), and I think nurses may resent this? What do you think Bubble? You are a nurse too. Healthcare assistants and auxilary's would obviously need to be included too, for all the hard and valuable work they do.

I think the crisis in the hospitals is nationwide. Staff being drafted in from foriegn countries does go some way to help ease the situation, but I think language proves to be a barrier, and is not really the answer.

I don't really know Bubble! Now I am thinking that maybe by making it about all the midwifes, nurses and HCA's it would take the emphasis off of what would be the point of your case. Which largely makes this whole post irrelevent to you. Oh, I don't know, I've spent bloody ages typing it, and I warned you it would be rambled. Sod it!! I hope you understant to good meaning behind this post if nothing else.