I am about to do something rather nasty

[tigermoth]

I will not be inviting one of my son's classmates to ds's 11th birthday party.

Reasons why:
He has been badly behaved at another party - shook up cans of fizzy drink and sprayed all the children and didn't stop when told off.

He can be physically pretty spiteful - dh saw him dragging a child across the playground by their hair.

ds and dh say they are 70% he stole a valuable toy when he last came round here (about a year ago). The party is going to be held in our home, we can't clear the room of all our stuff, so we need to trust the children who come round.

He is very defiant at school (I have talked about this on other threads)and dh and I find it diffucult to control him. Ds1 is afraid to be alone with him as he can be very naughty and ds finds it difficult to distance himself from trouble.

Also, he is not the only child who will not get a party invite, so he won't feel singled out exactly.

Why are we are holding a party at home?

It is ds's last year at the school and he wants to do this for his friends. Hiring a hall and disco and inviting all the class is inconvenient datewise and not good value for money. We have enough party space for about fifteen 11 year olds, so can easily cater for ds's friends.

However, and this is the point I go Ahhhh... the boy's mother does the school pick up for ds1 and 2. No one else offered to do it and if she feels snubbed, gets cross with me and stops the pick up I don't know what I will do.

Also, in the past (ie a year ago) ds and her son used to have the odd playdate, and we have invited him to previous parties ds has had.They boys were sort of friends, and I think the boy's mother still thinks they are. I expect she will be annoyed and hurt to find out that our ds is not inviting her ds to his party.

So should I say anything to the mother about the lack of a party invite? say nothing and cross my fingers? help, this is urgent as I need to get the invites out this week!

I haven't much computer time in the next day or so, so if I don't reply immediately, please bear with me.

Well I'm with Jan on the at 15 11 yr-olds in your house! How long for?!!

I'm trying to come up with something constructive to say, but atm my thoughts are just echoing marthamoo's post!

I'd recruit a riot squad of teenage helpers

I think the other mother would almost certainly be more hurt and put-out at having her ds's shortcomings explained to her than at just not getting an invitation. I woud say nothing unless she asks, and then go with the explanation that you can't invite everyone and have left it up to your ds. I don't think in the case of 11 year olds that there can be any question of the mother staying to monitor his behaviour. It would be social suicide for the lad; I'm sure he would prefer not to be invited than to have his mother there

Could you clarify for us what the arrangement is for the school run? Is there no way of getting someone else to do it? If you and ds don't really want ds to be friends with him any more, isn't it just prolonging the situation if they travel home from school together? I can appreciate why you dread the prospect of having this boy in your house but I think it would be very rude to his mother not to invite him, if she is doing you a favour on a regular basis.

Totally understand that you don't want the boy at the party, but I would be prepared to get other arrangements for the school run. If I was the other mum I would be really offended to be honest. Have you done favours to her to even things out?

tamum, I agree that any explanation should not be of the form 'he's so badly behaved' but rather just to acknowledge what is about to happen and to explain that ds chose who he wanted to invite. otherwise it will be something that is deliberately avoided and the mum will perhaps think you are pretending that there isn't a party and that she won't notice that her ds hasn't been invited. Since you presumably have pretty regular contact with this woman that would probably add to her confusion (well it would if it was me).

If it wasn't for the school run issue, it would be easy not to invite him.
However, as others have said, if I was the other mum I would feel snubbed and not want to continue doing you a favour - it's like saying that her son is good enough to mix with yours when you need a favour, but not good enough to come to his party

BTW am currently agnoising over how to invite some of ds1's friends to his party without offending others, so I do feel sympathetic

I'm with Tamum on the chaperone front - never mind what the mum thinks of you, the son will never forgive anyone at Tigermoth Towers if Mummy has to come too.
This is such a hard one. But given your delightful and eminently sensible boy doesn't like being left alone with Damien, he's clearly a major handful and you don't want him spoiling ds' final party with his primary school pals.
Does this lady pick up for you every day? I do think you owe her an explanation and I can't believe she doesn't know deep down that the son is badly behaved, and she might accept the numbers cop-out as a graceful face-saver on both fronts.
Let's say she reacts very badly and withdraws help with the school run. You have just under one term left for ds1. Were you hoping she would still be able to pick up ds2 for the foreseeable future? Or is she leaving the school with her son?
Personally I think 15 of them is quite enough and it is well short of the whole class, so he's presumably not the only non-invitee. I do hate it when ds is left out of party invitations but I hate it a whole load less when I know he is one of several, for number reasons...fair cop.

It seems like you've very much come to the end of the road with this boy. Is this not the point to "cut off" the relationship? (I know he's not going to the same school as ds1 in September.) Is there any way around the school run dilemma? It just seems almost 'cheeky' to continue accepting these favours, but not inviting him to the party. I think I would be very offended in that position, and I'm normally very laidback about party invites. (I have only once been momentarily cross at a non-invite!)

I do completely understand your reasons and your ds1's reasons for not wanting to invite him though, and agree they are completely justified.

How's the proposal of walking home going btw?

"I think the other mother would almost certainly be more hurt and put-out at having her ds's shortcomings explained to her than at just not getting an invitation"

Well obviously if you were to say that the son is a little thug and a hoodlum then it might not be well received, but there are tactful ways of broaching these subjects you know!

All I can say is that if it were me I would appreciate the direct approach and explanation rather then be sidelined without a mumur of explanation or a transparently false rationale.

roisin is making a lot of sense....

I agree with what you're going to say TM but may revise 15 to a muffled 5. I mean, still invite 15 but maybe don't state the number, just that you needed to restrict numbers, don't specify how many.

My middle ds has ADHD & can be unpredictable. He was the only child in the class not invited to his best friend's 11th birthday party. He was incredibly hurt and I was both furious & very very upset..

The parents said nothing to us at all, but of course the whole class was buzzing about the party before & after it.

I can understand your reasons completely, but be prepared for the other mum to stop the lifts (I would have felt better about it TBH if the mum had come to me & said that she/they/he didn't want him there than just hearing it from everyone else).

I agree with alot of the posts on here that you should say nothing unless she asks and then smile apologetically and say that your ds chose who to invite and oh-you-know-what-boys-are-like. Keep it lighthearted, smile and have a 'gosh how embarrassing but I'm sure you understand its nothing personal' air about you. My dd has been left out at some parties and not invited, whereas the year before she had been invited, and it doesn't bother me. Not everyone can go to every party, and most mums appreciate that.

ohh lots of food for thought. I have just bought the invites today, but we have not handed them out yet.

OK, trying to answer different points raised: The school pick up arrangement is, principally, a financial arrangement - I pay the boy's mother a monthly amount, including the school holidays when we do not see her. I put an ad on the school notice board, she was the only person to reply. As I am at work, I cannot and do not do reciprocal pick ups. She agreed to the rate and seems happy with it. I do not feel I owe her any other favours. The boy's mother happens to drive down our street on her way back home. She has to make a 5 minute detour to drop off ds2 at his playclub, then drops of ds1 at home, before heading back to her house with her own son. I have checked several times to make sure she is happy with the arrangements, ds1 and 2 are behaving themselves etc etc.

Having said all that the boys mother is someone I like. She is a nice person, actively involved with school things, and her son and mine have things in common, namely their less than angelic behaviour. They were never close friends, but often were both (along with a few others) in trouble at the same time for the same sort of thing. However, from what I gather, her son's behaviour has got increasingly worse over the last year. I took him out last autumn and I was shocked at how uncontrollable he was. He is a very extrovert, charming boy, but he is also very wild. My son is not in his league! He seems to get banned from a lot of events and activities. He really loathes the school whereas my son really loves the school, so the two boys have a lot less in common than they did a couple of years ago.

His mother has never said to me that her son has any behavourial problem. She knows full well that he can be naughty, but she also blames the school for being heavy handed and negative in their treatment of him.

I'm just going back to read your messages again, but will post this in case I get suddenly called away...

ok here's more. Why are we holding a party for 15 11 year olds in our house? well, up until this weekend, I was all for booking a disco, hiring our church hall and inviting all the class, inclunding this boy - so was ds1, but dh talked us both out of it. The cost would have been the best part of £200, before food, party bags, decorations, for a not very atmospheric place on a date that wasn't convenient for us. Also, as dh says, our house is big enough for a party, we could do lots more with the money, and do we really want to go to all the trouble and expense of hiring somewhere, just so that an extra 10 children (not particular friends of ds) can turn up - dh's class has 25 children in it. I have to agree with him, do did ds1.

must go, will come back later!

Not sure if this has already been suggested but how about inviting his mum?
Does he behave for her?
That way, she can be responsible for him leaving you to look after the rest of the party, Are any other parents going to be there to help?

Togermoth, we'll all pray for sunshine!

HI again. If the boy was younger, I could invite him mother, but he is a very cool 11 year old, so I can't see this working.

My son is going to take in the invitations today as time is running out. I think the best bet is to play down the numbers we're inviting, as Tinker suggested. I will impress on my son that he must do this, especially if the other boy asks him. I don't see the boy's mother day to day, so am stalling today while I make up my mind about saying something to her. Dh is very much of the opinion that we should keep things simple, keep quiet and take the consequences if she gets upset.

I thought I posted on this last night - I must have dreamed it!

I didn't realise you were paying her for the school pick-up thing. In that case it's much less relevant IMO, as it's not her doing you a big fabour, it's an arrangement of mutually agreed benefit. She might still take the hump, but it's less of a risk IMO, and the etiquette is different - I think.

I hope the party goes really well btw, and that everyone enjoys it!

I definitely think that the financial aspect releases you from feeling obliged to invite said boy. And if he is one of ten other univitees then no-one can feel singled out either. I'm just wondering if any difficulty may arise if ds1 and 2 talk about the party during the school run?

I think you're doing the right thing, Tigermoth.

The payment aspect makes it much easier.

if you get chance, and since you like the Mum and are presumably friendly and chatty, could you casually say 'it's interesting that DS and your Ds have grown apart a little as friends. Is your DS a bit calmer now that Ds is no longer in cahoots?' - all disingenous, and then the next time you talk say 'oh, I'm dreading it, ds has invited a couple of close friends for his birthday (don't use word 'party') - and I don't know all of them'.

thanks again, the children have just received their invites, and so far no problems with the boy. I will see how things go in the next few days. I will be talking to the mother over something else next week, so I might mention the party in passing ( nervous about this though, so may say nothing at all!). If I do say anything, I will emphasise it's a small gathering, pity we couldn't invite the whole class, but the school hall was booked when we wanted it.