Why is it that people are so obsessed with testing for Downs syndrome, when there are so many other disabilities which cannot be tested for, that are far, far worse?

[wannaBe]

It baffles me.

When we fall pregnant we are offered tests, and scans, most, although not all of which relate to the detection of Downs Syndrome.

At 12 weeks we are offered a nuchal fold scan to determine the likelyhood of the baby having downs, and women over 35 are routinely offered anmio to detect whether the baby has downs.

92% of pregnancies where Downs is detected are terminated .

And yet there are lots of other disabilities, such as cerebral palsy, autism, other disabilities which cause learning difficulties, which cannot be detected in utero, but which can be much, much worse than downs.

So what is it about Downs that is so scary?

Or would people have far more stressful pregnancies if all disabilities could be tested for, and would they feel that they had to be sure their baby would be perfect?

jimjams, why do you insist on making stuff up?

'But you think their lives are miserable and unfufilled because of their child.'

Where have I said that?

If you want to know what I think perhaps you could ask me and then possibly listen to my response.

Well here for one:

"ut I do worry that dismissing or trivialising the problems that SOME disabled children have (which IS happening a lot on this thread) and that whole attitude in RL will have the very sad effect of making some parents feel more guilty because they are NOT coping, do NOT find life or caring for their child joyful, ARE miserable and devastated.......

I HAVE spoken to parents and read about them who are really very depressed. Suicidal even because life is just so very,very hard for them because of the particular needs their children have."

Don't have time to trawl the thread and cut and paste them all, but I think that paints a general picture.

Oh I know that we've gone at some stage from many to some to few to one. But I am curious as to whether you feel the need to tell parents of NT kids just how utterly bleak parenting 'normal' children can be for many/some/few/one'

Oh sorry, it was just an excuse to have a rant against women who choose antenatal testing and terminations and tell them how ignorant and stupid and selfish and 'dim' they are."

Ah - now you are making stuff up

I never said women who choose to have ante natal testing are dim

I said that I think you are dim. A view I firmly hold to as true

And no one has said that people who have testing are stupid and selfish and dim. Actually only you have said that.

You still haven't answered any of my earlier posts.
Why are you not terribly interested in the the brilliant posts of people like Thomcat and littlemydancing and eisvold?
Why are you so deeply obsessed with people disagreeing with you?
Why are you posting endlessly upon a subject which does not broadly affect you.
And do you really have a god complex?

'fivecandles. Everytime someone says "well I have a disabled child and am happy" you come in doom laden and say "well not everyone is".

I don't see the problem with that where some people are using their PERSONAL experience as a way of suggesting what is right or wrong GENERALLY and to dismiss others' concerns.

I.e in response to the OP someone might say, 'What worries me about disability is that my family will find it hard to cope,' and someone else says, 'What a load or rubbish. Having a child with disabilities is pure joy.'

'Do you say that to people with "normal" kids.'

Actually, yes. But perhaps there are a lot less myths flying around about parenting in general. In fact, it's considered quite acceptable to talk about how hard it is to parent children who don't have disabilities and how parents can suffer from depression etc. If I started a thread now saying, 'This parenting lark's pretty hard isn't it. You know what sometimes it makes me depressed,' I'd be very surprised if anyone found that in any way controversial or unusual. Apparently it's taboo to talk about these things where parenting is of a child with disabilities though or at least on this thread.

Which is not to say for the trillionth time that parenting (a child with disabilities) is all doom and gloom. It just can be sometimes for most people and for some people a lot of the time.

'Incidentally earlier on in the thread you talked a lot about limited life expectancy and poor quality of life. I hope you have learned from this thread, that those are both rather outdated wrt DS. '

You're trying so hard to make me seem like an ignorant half-wit that I almost want to say that you're right I am indeed stupid.

Actually, as I've said 310 times. Quality of life and life expectancy vary from disability to disability and person to person.

For Downs life expectancy is on average 50-60 years according to this site

www.downs-syndrome.org.uk/pdfs/ageing%20&%20consequences.pdf

. Maybe that's 'outdated' now. I know it's improving all the time but it's still lower on average for people with DS.

Good post pagwatch. Pretty much hits the nail on the head for me with this one. Now i must go parent my children

You're trying so hard jimjams to demonise me (why?) but just not really finding the evidence are you:

'I think that paints a general picture.'

Read the post again. A little bit more carefully. Do you notice the word 'some'. Why am I not allowed to say that SOME people do not find life etc joyful??

In what way is that controversial? In what way is that drawing GENERAL conclusions from some people's experience or telling other people what to do?

Oh, that's right it doesn't.

But go ahead keep trying to find stuff I've said that's really shocking. You'll have your work cut out for you.

pag, that's right I am dim. Do have a God complex and disability does not affect me at all.

Make you feel better?

by fivecandles on Thu 18-Sep-08 19:52:44

"you're right I am indeed stupid."

At last !

(See - we can all cut and paste )

Well I don't know riven. According to jimjams those figures are 'outdated' or perhaps I'm too dim to know about them. Perhaps it's all just my perception.

oh 5

You are a sad sad person
What on earth makes you so bitter and angry and so determined to be so deeply unpleasant.

And again you haven't answered any of my questions but picked on one to be sneery about.
I honestly do think you have major emotional issues with being challenged?
Don't you?
Or why are you still here on a thread that actually affects you not a jot?

And what did you think about the posts I mentioned?

What on earth make you think I'm bitter and angry? You're the one hurling the insults.

Which question would you most like me to answer? And before I do answer it are you sure you want me to or have you already decided what my answer will be (a sort of ignorant, prejudiced, dim and invented one) and so you'll ignore what I actually DO say?

Actually Riven there is evidence that people with SN have a hugely reduced life expectancy comapared to average population precisely because Doctors and medical profession make huge judgements about outcome vs quality of life based upon their own perceptions of the disability.

I remember listening to a substantial segment on 5 live following major research.
Sad isn't it.
That some doctors vision of life with SN will affect the treatment he offers/recommends

That is sad.

oh any of them
most interested in you view of posters who you don't feel challenged by - the ones you have broadly ignored.
But answer which ever you like.

You are hugely entertaining so go with the one that takes your fancy...

Without reading the other posts (there are almost 1,000 of them by now), I think that it's not that Downs is scarier than other disabilities, it's just that it's one of the only genetic ones that can be tested for early on in a pregnancy. As delightful as many Downs children (and adults) are, they are still considered by many as a "burden" to families & society in general as people with Downs need much more care. An older mother is more likely to conceive a child with a genetic disorder than a younger one and therefore may not be able to care for her child into his or her adulthood.

actually - will have to read and be amazed tomorrow as DS2 needs to go to bed.

Night all

Have gone back 5 pages but can't find the ones you mean.

i haven't read any of this except the last few and the op. with the last baby we opted out of nuchal fold. then spent the rest of the pregnancy being asked why when a problem was detected at 20 weeks. we had lots of tests, but didn't have CVS due to risk of miscarriage. I'm not going into our family etc but i don't know anyone who worries about Downs specifically, just whether or not there might be a problem. If you can only test for certain things, you'll only talk about those. i wanted to be forewarned but not to make any choices.

Why are you not terribly interested in the the brilliant posts of people like Thomcat and littlemydancing and eisvold?
Why are you so deeply obsessed with people disagreeing with you?
Why are you posting endlessly upon a subject which does not broadly affect you.

these are on this page
the others are slightly further back

( like I said - dim)

night night