Why is it that people are so obsessed with testing for Downs syndrome, when there are so many other disabilities which cannot be tested for, that are far, far worse?

[wannaBe]

It baffles me.

When we fall pregnant we are offered tests, and scans, most, although not all of which relate to the detection of Downs Syndrome.

At 12 weeks we are offered a nuchal fold scan to determine the likelyhood of the baby having downs, and women over 35 are routinely offered anmio to detect whether the baby has downs.

92% of pregnancies where Downs is detected are terminated .

And yet there are lots of other disabilities, such as cerebral palsy, autism, other disabilities which cause learning difficulties, which cannot be detected in utero, but which can be much, much worse than downs.

So what is it about Downs that is so scary?

Or would people have far more stressful pregnancies if all disabilities could be tested for, and would they feel that they had to be sure their baby would be perfect?

'that is understood. And the majority of disablities that isn't even a tiddly issue. And what would 12legs do if, heaven forbid, one of her kids became disabled? Or she did (I developed MS at 26. Too late for termination)
She would cope thats what. It would be 'normal'.'

Again you dismiss other people's concerns so easily. My dad has MS and can no longer travel with ease which was one of his greatest pleasures. And he doesn't consider it 'normal'. There's nothing he can do about it but he hates it. My sister lives abroad by the way so he can't see her easily or her kids.

expat, I DO. I think you'll find that I've explained that very clearly. I have said many times that I respect everybody's choices including yours and rivens. I do not insult people or attack people. I really think you need to read my posts.

I have never, ever said that my choices are right for everyone. I have said they're right for me. I wouldn't dream of imposing my values or way of life on anyone else any more than I would order for them in a restaurant or tell them what career to do.

TBH I find that whole mentality quite bizarre.

But there are people on this thread who ARE telling other people that their choices and opinions even where these choices only concern their own bodies and families are wrong.

Wouldn't it depend a bit on how far you are affected by MS....I mean, physically now, not your attitude towards it?

What's complaining got to do with happiness. I complain quite a bit. Did before kids, do now. It's in my nature.

I'm also very happy. Would my life be easier without a disabled child. Yes certainly. Would I be any happier. No, I don't think so. I see plenty of people who have perfect lives on paper who are desperately unhappy. My severity of my son's condition, and the children he goes to school with has helped me to gain persepctive on what is important in life. I truly think that being able to let the little things go can be a great help in achieving happiness (for anyone).

I'm also doing a job that I love, which I most definitely would not being doing had I not had ds1.

'do you assume from the behaviour threads that life with all kids is dom and gloom?'

I think you'll find that I've said several times that life (with or without a disabled child) for most people is neither all doom and gloom nor all hearts and roses. In fact, I used those exact words.

'I really think you need to read my posts. '

Oh god! Here we go again!

Sorry, but I don't have another 5 days to read you writing the same thing again and again and refusing to take on board anything anyone else says if it is remotely different from your line of thinking and call them unpleasant, offensive and all sorts of other negative things because they don't agree with you.

It is beyond tiresome, inflexible and narrow and tbh it's made a lot of people quite aghast that you're out there teaching young people.

Part of being a mother of a child with SN is that you learn to let some things lie and just LEAVE IT.

It's liberating.

'Most (all?) of the parents osting here who have disabled children have pointed out that we hate the whole gift/enriching patronising crap.'

OMG the 'gift/enriching patronising crap' as you put it is EXACTLY what the parents with disabled children were posting here.

Exactly those words. All joy and enrichment. No problems. Just blissful, happy family life.

I'd find you some examples but it might embarrass the posters to repeat them. You could have a look?

Sorry I didn't realize how much I have to spell out my points exactly. My point about China is that given its record on human rights and well documented common attitudes to disability (i.e. not very positive) it probably wouldn't be MY own first choice of country to visit with a disabled child especially given the access problems outlined by 12. As for the human rightS issue I personally try not to visit countries with appalling record of human rights abuses but that's just me. Clearly if neither of these issues bother you then fine you just go to China and send us a postcard.

fivecandles why do you find it so threatening that some of us could possibly be happy whilst caring for a child who will need 24 hour care for the rest of their life.

Today I got up, got the kids off to school, went to work, had quite a sociable day at work (did a bit of complaining, did a bit of laughing etc). Came home. Did some work with ds1, went to collect his brothers, cooked tea, dh came home, bathed kids, I went to Tesco, am back, am about to have a glass of wine.

Oooh a normal family life around a severely disabled child. That can't be right. I should be sitting in the corner wailing or something

'am about to have a glass of wine. '

Well I should be doing my 22 mile swim thing expat, so I'm not having many at the moment, but having a night off so will have a durrrink instead (only one mind).

oh look I get time to swim 22 miles in 12 weeks as well. That can't be right.

well, jimjams, I very nearly was sitting in a corner and wailing (see earlier post), but as I pointed out then, not necessarily because I have a disabled child (just usual toddler stuff)

fivecandles - there you go again on the misrepresentation. I never said I wasn't bothered by human rights issues, you just assumed that because I will visit China in the future, i must not care. you have no idea as to why i might be going there (or why I have been there in the past), but just jump in anyway.

one BIG one, i hope, because you'll be gulping my share.

'Your dad possibly comes from an older generation where disability was seen as shameful.'

I'm still not getting why its ok for you to make assumptions about other people (as well as judging their choices) riven?

My dad can't get about because he can't walk. That makes getting on the tube in central London just a little bit tricky. My sister lives in Switzerland which is not part of the EU so doesn't have the same regulations on disability that we have so for example no lifts in the airport. He can't do stairs. He also gets very tired by any sort of physical effort.

'Part of being a mother of a child with SN is that you learn to let some things lie and just LEAVE IT.

It's liberating.'

Perhaps follow your own advice then expat instead of insulting me and questioning my ability to teach FGS?!

Once again it's nothing to do with people disagreeing. That's sort of what discussion is all about isn't it? Making assumptions, insulting, attacking and contradicting yourself is a bit different.

'fivecandles why do you find it so threatening that some of us could possibly be happy whilst caring for a child who will need 24 hour care for the rest of their life. '

jimjams either you haven't read much of what I've written or you haven't understood it.

I don't find this threatening I think it's great.

Perhaps I could turn it round and ask why you find it so threatening that some people could not be happy caring for a child who will need 24 hour care for the rest of their life??

'Perhaps follow your own advice then expat instead of insulting me and questioning my ability to teach FGS?!'

Because I take my pleasures where I find them, and someone who repeatedly gets so easily and incredibly worked up at every turn just by random strangers disagreeing with them that they spend days beating the same tune on the same tin drum; right away accuse others of being insulting and personal and 'attacking' and all those other synonyms you have for it whilst doing the same is mildly amusing in small doses from time to time.

A bit in the way a dog finds playing with a lizard amusing for a wee while.

Anyone know how to do that line thingy on here?

You'd be funny if you weren't so ernest.

I don't know why some of you are so keen on making assumptions and attacking.

'you just assumed that because I will visit China in the future, i must not care. you have no idea as to why i might be going there (or why I have been there in the past), '

NO, I think you'll find that what I said was it wouldn't be MY first choice of countries to visit either with or without a disabled child.

It's kind of interesting how some people assume that everything I say about my own life and choices is somehow a sleight on their choices and opinions.

You do realize that it's ok to be different don't you?

Jimjams, you thicko! Did you get that PhD out of one of those 50p machines in a shopping centre?

'someone who repeatedly gets so easily and incredibly worked up '

Who is that then expat??

I think you'll find I'm very calm.

Do wonder if there's a little bit of projection going on. Perhaps you'd like to talk about how you're feeling?

By Twelvelegs on Wed 17-Sep-08 20:13:26

'A toddler with DS is hardly either a severely disabled or SN child.' (child with SN)

Doesn't that rather bring us back to the point of the OP?

Why so focussed on DS?