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Original poster

Another moral dilemma.........please help

38 replies

breeze · 02/02/2003 20:34

I need some advice, i have recently found out that one of my best friends goes out with her dh to a neighbours house and leaves their 2 kids, one 6 yr old, and one 3 yr old home alone, they take the baby monitor with them so they can hear if they get up.

I was totally shocked when i was told this and it has happened on at least 5 ocassions i was told about. They even go out on the town and leave the baby monitor and a key with a neighbour so she can stay in her own house.

I told her this wasn't good, but she just brushed it aside saying its ok for you as you never have any problems in going out.

She seems to think that this is okay, because she will hear if they woke up, but what about if a fire started or something. I have tried to talk to her about it but she doesn't listen and i am really worried about the kids. help

OP posts:
jac34 · 02/02/2003 21:10

Are these people mad, anything could happen in the house and the neighbour, would not hear it.I doubt very much if the neighbour, is constantly listening to it either.
I think I'd have another word, and say if they do it again you'll report them, if they don't listen, then next time they go out ring the police.
I can undrstand what it's like not being able to get anyone to babysit,Dh and I find people are very reluctant to sit for our DS twins, we go out very rarely, but this is just not on.

Chiccadum · 02/02/2003 21:20

I agree with Jac34 they must be mad, don't they realise that by the time they or the neighbour got into the house after hearing a noise a very serious or even fatal accident could have happened. Neither me nor my dh would go so much as to the end of the drive and leave ours alone even though our 3 1/2 dd is more like a 10yr old. They really should be reported if they carry on with this behaviour. Since my 10mnth dd was born i have been out twice and both times left her with dh, they should realise that the children are their responsibility and if they cannot afford or get someone to babysit the children in their own home then they should stay home, it makes me cringe to think what could happen to those poor little mites.

Linzoid · 02/02/2003 22:23

How far away is the neighbour from their house? My next door neighbour has gone out for an hour during the day while her dd 2 years was asleep in bed( with a safety gate accross bedroom )and left me with the monitor and the key. I would NOT do it myself but the next house is pretty much like the next room in my house. I think it is definately out of order if the house is any furthur than the next door. I am allways over cautious but some people are plain irresponsible.

prufrock · 02/02/2003 22:44

I thought I was bad to take the rubbish (and the monitor) out to the bin whilst dd was asleep and immobile in her cot. This is really dangerous. If you're feeling really nice, could you have another word and if she uses the same argument that she needs to get out, offer to babysit?

willow2 · 02/02/2003 23:07

It's not only dangerous and stupid, it's illegal. I'm sorry, but this sort of behaviour makes me sick. As others have said, what if there was a fire? These things spread so quickly - before your friend realised there was a problem her children could be dead. I don't care if she has problems affording a babysitter, her behaviour cannot be condoned.

WideWebWitch · 02/02/2003 23:07

Actually, I don't think this is that terrible, depending on how close the neighbour's house is. If they are only very next door and within range of the monitor then surely they'd hear if the children woke or anything happened? As long as the parents can definitely hear and could get in fast if one of them woke up. Would they hear the doorbell for example if someone rang it? Wouldn't like the idea of a 6yo answering the door late at night. If they had a massive house they would be just as far away if their children were right at the top and they were right at the bottom wouldn't they? (depending on the distances involved from house to house) so I don't think it's that terrible. Is it very regular? I think I'd be more bothered if it was. I don't think they should go out and leave the neighbour with the monitor though, since I can't believe she'd listen as carefully as they would. Haven't done it myself though and probably wouldn't I have to admit!

lou33 · 02/02/2003 23:17

Sadly there isn't a legal minimum age at which children can be left alone, but if anything was to happen to an unattended minor it would be the legal responsibility of the adult concerned.

jasper · 03/02/2003 00:59

I had friends who did exactly this.
They lived in adjoining semis and had an intercom permanantly between the houses and had a reciprocal arrangement and would socialise at each others houses while the kids were asleep.
It all worked happily till the day one family slagged off the other's teenage daughter ...while the intercom was switched on.

bossykate · 03/02/2003 06:55

i have been wondering how this is different to using a baby listening service in a hotel? surely all the same risks apply?

Original poster
breeze · 03/02/2003 08:21

Actually the neightbour is opposite and about 3 houses up.

The really annoying this is they can afford a baby-sitter, and i have said to her when i found out i will have them to sleep overnight, but she replied then there's all the hassel of getting there stuff ready bring them round and picking them up.

I also know for a fact when her dh went away on business she went to the pub with a friend (4 door up) and couldn't hear the monitor so she switched it off for an hour. I know this was a one-off as she was lonely without dh, but i think this is awful.

I am sure that this is a regular thing, but i am not close enough to know when she is going out. I have tried to talk to her but she really doesn't think she is doing anything wrong.

To be honest, when my ds was about 3 months old and had a chest infection, in the middle of winter, he had run out of milk, and when he was alseep in his cot, i left him home alone to go to the stop (8 doors up), i ran the whole way, and back and felt completely sick when i got back with worry, he was fine of course, but i felt sick after 2 minutes.

I can not understand how they can enjoy there evening (getting drunk) while anything could happen to the kids, i might be wrong, but i do not even think that they go and check on them.

OP posts:
Original poster
breeze · 03/02/2003 08:24

When my dh was on holiday we had the chance to use a baby listening service, but didn't even consider it. you don't know who has a key for the room, and we didn't even give it a second though, its like leaving your baby with a stranger that you know nothing about.

OP posts:
jac34 · 03/02/2003 09:00

Thinking about what Lou33 said, could you not aproach the neighbour who is left with the monitor, and tell her that she will be held responsible if any thing goes wrong, because the children were left in her care.She may not realise, the position she is being put in. If she is at home listening, then can't she just go over the road to the other womans house.
There realy is no excuse since you have offered to sit as well.

tigermoth · 03/02/2003 11:59

Breeze, I'd be concerned too, and this is coming from someone who once lived in a tiny terrace and occasionally used to leave her sleeping ds for 10 minutes at a time while popping over to near neighbours. Our houses were so small and close together and three of them would have made one semi.

In your case, however, your friend is not even staying in the street and is away for long periods of time. How does she know that this neighbour stays in every minute herself? or listens? I don't think this is on at all. If you don't want to lecture her directly, could you invent a story about, say, a colleague
who did something similar, was reported to social services and had them threatening to take her children away? also point out that your friend's oldest child could well say something at school which would alert the teacher to the situation, again with dire consequences.

Original poster
breeze · 03/02/2003 12:03

Tigermoth, good advice except that she doesn't tell the children they are going, the kids go up to sleep and think they are downstairs.

I like the idea of saying someone similar happened to someone.

OP posts:
bundle · 03/02/2003 12:07

I feel bad if I dash out to the car to fetch something I've forgotten from the car - and I can still hear if anything happens (coughs, crying) in dd's room which is at the front on the ground floor.
on a lighter note: jasper - I thought that only happened in soap operas!

Batters · 03/02/2003 12:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

willow2 · 03/02/2003 12:24

lou33 - might be wrong but I thought it was illegal to leave children under the age of 13 alone - or that it was illegal for a child under the age of 13 to be left responsible for younger children. Either way, if I am right, the same applies. But could be wrong!

BossyKate - suppose the difference is that in a decent hotel you would expect a smoke alarm and sprinkler system. My main concern is that if there was a fire nobody would hear or smell it until it was well under way.

Tissy · 03/02/2003 12:27

Is your friend SURE that the baby monitor works at that range? Mine certainly doesn't!

Could the local HV help out here? I feel strongly that this is a child protection issue, and someone has to be told about this, if your friend won't see reason.

mum2toby · 03/02/2003 12:32

Ditto Tissy.
I think the parents are a total disgrace and a danger to the well being of their kids. I mean, what is their priority... the kids safety or their social life.....??

I think the answer to that question is too apparent!!

Good Luck Breeze with whatever you decide to do.

star · 03/02/2003 12:54

Good idea,tell the hv then she can alert social services.It really isn'n on going down the pub and so often,it's not even an emergency.Some people don't deserve to have children.

elliott · 03/02/2003 13:13

well, I must be a very negligent mother I used to happily potter in the garden for an hour or so during naptimes using the baby monitor - probably physically further from ds than if I'd been next door. And I didn't give it a second thought leaving ds in a hotel room during a wedding - I just kept a close eye on the monitor. The idea that someone might sneak into our room never crossed my mind!
I do think the scenario here seems to have crossed the line of acceptability - both in terms of distance from the kids, the fact that they are old enough to be able to get out of bed (or even out of the house) by themselves, and definitely leaving a neighbour to 'listen' for them. Don't know what you can do about it though apart from discuss with social services.

Rhubarb · 03/02/2003 13:58

I'm one of the bad brigade of mothers here too! We have both been at our neighbour's before now, taking the baby monitor with us. We've also stayed in a hotel and left her asleep in the room whilst we've gone 3 floors down to the bar, taking the monitor with us. I see it as no different than if you lived in a very big house, where the nursery could be on the top floor and you at the bottom.

Fire and things like that are always going to be a worry, but you can't live your life around 'What If's' all the time. I agree that leaving a neighbour to babysit from the comfort of their own home is a bit much though. But to answer the question about the range of monitors, ours was a cheap one from Boots but when we tried it out, dh could still hear me from the end of the street! So the only real risk is that of fire, as anything else would be heard.

I don't think calling the Police would do you any favours at all. But having a word with the HV might be an idea. At the end of the day, if they are doing nothing illegal and are good parents in other respects, there is nothing anyone can do. If you really are worried Breeze, then could you not offer to babysit once in a while? Or do a deal with her that you'll have her kids for a sleepover once every six weeks or so, if she promises not to use the neighbour anymore?

Have a word with her, if she's your friend she should at least listen to your concerns. Perhaps she has it more planned out than you think? For instance, if she has smoke alarms, they would be heard over the monitor wouldn't they? Perhaps her monitor is highly sensitive? Do they have a dog in the house that would bark? But don't interfere too much as your friend wouldn't thank you for it.

threeangels · 03/02/2003 14:02

To me this this would classify as child endangerment. I havent read any of the other post so sorry if I am repeating anything. My point is what if someone broke into the home? I also doubt there is a monitor in every room in the house. What if one of the children wondered into the bathroom and got into dangerous items? Whos to say they will make enough noise to even hear them wondering around. This person could easily be charged because of the ages.

threeangels · 03/02/2003 14:06

I also meant to mention about the monitors that when we had a monitor in our bedroom where ds slept we would hear him shuffling around in his bed thinking he was just tossing and turning. No out of the ordinary noise and the next thing I knew he was strolling down the hall to us. Didnt even realize he was getting out of the bed because he was so quiet about it.

CAM · 03/02/2003 15:19

There must be someone actually in the house with children under 14 years old, otherwise it is negligence. This is definitely not on.