The play group bully attacked my DS3...............

[emmatmg]

I'll probably get shot down for telling/posting this but I just had a "red mist" incident and want you see if you think I've over reacted.

The playgroup bitter/snatcher/pusher is followed everywhere by his mum or gran to stop the bite/snatch etc. They do an OK job as he is quite hard work so he's not watched the whole time. One bite to a baby today but nothing to serious, A few week ago it was a different story so one little girl he bite.

Ok, I know some children bite etc, and the fact that he's followed to stop it is good, they try to pre-empt(sp?) him. This is not the reason for my "red mist" though.

Right, he was on the top step of the slide with my Ds3 sitting on the floor behind him. DS3 was fiddling with the bottom step so I was hovering around to make sure his finger didn't get trod on. Fingers were the least of my concern!!!
The other child turned around, looked at ds3 and started KICKING HIM IN THE HEAD!!!!!!!!!!

I absolutley lost it. Scooped Ds3 up and shouted at the child somthing like "That is very naughty, you don't kick people" His Gran was over the other side of the hall at the time. She apologised but TBH, I was so mad I couldn't tell you what she said. She put the child in in buggy and the came back to say sorry again (asked if he'd drawn blood!) and I accepted her apologies but told her she should really do a better job of watching him.

I do feel quite embarrassed that I told him off but it was so vicious I just couldn't believe my eyes. If DS3 had been the kicker I would understand 100% him being told off my the mum and the gran seemed really embarrassed the whole thing.

Writting it all down now I don't think I did over-react BUT I suspect alot of other mums are talking about me now.

I'm just wondering if one of the organisers would be prepared to have a quiet word - suggest the child comes later for shorter periods and perhaps built it up over time.

Some playgroups seem well run, but some felt like a stressful hell-hole to me - Perhaps I'm a bit sensitive to it because I'm a teacher, but I'd often be thinking, "Oooh, I wouldn't allow this/that/the other if I was running this!" !

was going to change my name for this but have found i can't be bothered.

i really object to a 26m old child (a 2yo fhs!) being referred to as a "vicious little shit" and a "bully". i don't think that's really on with such a young child.

I agree, SQ, but Emma is very angry and upset that he littel man has been hurt. When your children are hurt, you don't really think about resonable ways of referring to the perpetrator - especially when still angry or in the heat of the moment.

I'm pretty sure I would have been walking off muttering similar names under my breath, but common sense tells me he is only a baby (once I hae calmed down). And I think Emma did say something along the lines of knowing he is little, etc.

That's fine serene, I expect alot worse for telling him off.

He is vicious though and does "bully" other children, as much as a 2 yr old can.

Calling him a little shit isn't nice, but I didn't say it to him and would never say it to a child or his/her parent even if he had kicked my son in the head.

and I would want you to say it in disguise either so glad you didn't change your name.

What age do you start holding children accountable for their actions though? This boy should know by now though that that type of behaviour is unacceptable, if nobody tells him to stop it or shouts at him, how will he ever learn? Good on you em! I think his mum/gran need a telling off aswell! If it's not nipped in the bud he will grow up to be a nasty piece of work, it's ok saying, but he's too young to know any better, all kids can lash out sometimes but this kid sounds like he has some issues, I mean acting like that all the time!

My 2:20 post...should say would'NT want you to.....

I must preview. I must preview. I must preview.

My dd is 25 months and knows full well what's right and what's wrong. When she goes to hit her brother she looks round to see if anyones looking 1st. They know full well what they're doing at that age!!!!!

Please don't shout at me, but he may have problems which his parents/relatives are doing their level best to manage. His behavioural problems may stem from a special need which has yet to be identified. I've taught plenty of children who really struggle to manage their behaviour (as do their parents) and its not through want of trying from the family.

Playing devils advocate here...

Between 2 and 3 is a REALLY difficult age for "behaviour", boys and girls, but in my albeit limited experience, some are much rougher than others, and some are more passive (but this doesn't mean they are good and bad children - just experiencing their cause and effects at different paces).

We are always being told that it's the reaction children are after. In this scenario, the boy got a) screaming baby, b) shouting mum (and not his own, what a bonus), and c) attention from his gran. He probably thought it was all quite worthwhile.

I think the issue is that more "difficult" very young children cannot be left to their own devices, if they are prone to this sort of behaviour - but again, it's difficult to keep young children cooped up in the house all day.

However. You had to react the way you did, because the care-giver was not paying attention. I would have too. That said, perhaps the best course of action would have been for Gran to have immediately taken him home. Removal from the source of fun is often the best "punishment", and the worst outome is to do all this attention giving "making them say sorry" (I really don't believe that kids this young "get" sorry - although they know what has caused all the fuss, which they enjoy).

When you consider there are babies to 3 year olds and the HUGE learning curve they are on, M&B groups are pretty scary places really!

I attend them "at my own risk"

I haven't said the Gran should have done anything more, I just pointed out that she DID apologise. Which is all she could have done as she did (also) put him in his buggy to leave.

And I have also said that I didn't call anyone directly a little shit, I said it on here because that's what I think of his continually bad bahaviour towards other children. I did post earlier that it's not a nice thing to say and I that wouldn't say it him him or his carer. I said it because he had kicked my son in the head not once but 3 or 4 times and I was am still very angry about it.
I agree there maybe learning/behavioural problem that I know nothing about but as he/we have been going to the same playgruops for quite some time this does not seem to be that case. At least at moment.

I seem to be digging a bigger hole for myself here. I am embarrassed about my outburst but I'm not any less angry.

I call my kids little shit's all the time, but I love them. (my mum's always having a go at me about it!)

I think you behaved very reasonably, I would have been very upset and would have expected the child to be told off there and then.

having said that the child is only 2 so it is a difficult one.

Unfortunately this sort of thing happens all of the time, wherever you go. It is so hard to know what to do as being a mum we all feel so protective of our children.
I must admit that I have called the boy (although aged 7) who punched my son in the eye at his birthday party far worse than a little shit. I want to kill the ***. I honestly hate this child so much i could hurt him for what he does to ds How bad is that??? So I do know how you feel!

emmatmg, I think we know that you were letting off steam because you were so cross and needing to vent on MN.

Thankyou puff

Ah let Emma vent, that's what Mumsnet is for.

The only thing I'd be a bit embarrassed about, is seeing the Gran again. I wouldn't be a bit embarrassed if she was a serial offender or if she'd been defiant instead of apologetic, but seeing as how she was apologetic and probably feels humiliated and upset about what happened, I would feel bad about that.

I wouldn't worry at all about the other mums though. Some of them might have behaved far worse than you, given the provocation.

I'm with you BH. there's a little bully that is so incredibly mean and aggressive I don't think I can even be reasonable about him anymore. I just don't allow ds to be around him now. Period.

Fair enough swilt. In my case I know that there are no special needs with this particular child, but I would certainly have a different attitude if that were the case.

Sorry for bumping this again.

swilt, I really don't think I'm judging him. I'm sure I would not, actually I know I would not have reacted the way I did if it was a push or whatever, even though I know the little boy often does it. They(my Ds's) have been pushed, shoved, biten or whatever before and I have told the mum not to worry when she's been horrified and apologised for her child. These things do happen but, this really was something else. Ds3 wasn't harrassing him at all, he wasn't even touching him but still got kicked.

I wish there was away of posting a reply without it going to the top again........I don't want to draw attention to this again.

Sorry for bumping this again.

swilt, I really don't think I'm judging him. I'm sure I would not, actually I know I would not have reacted the way I did if it was a push or whatever, even though I know the little boy often does it. They(my Ds's) have been pushed, shoved, biten or whatever before and I have told the mum not to worry when she's been horrified and apologised for her child. These things do happen but, this really was something else. Ds3 wasn't harrassing him at all, he wasn't even touching him but still got kicked.

I wish there was away of posting a reply without it going to the top again........I don't want to draw attention to this again.

I don't think you overreacted, but speaking as a mum of a child who might have done something like this, I feel for his Gran a bit. She sounds as if she and the boys mum do take his behaviour seriously - had she left him long on this occasion, or had she just been gone a minute for the loo or to grab a galss of water or something? She probably feels awful (as you do, I'm sure).
I wonder if it had been another child if you would have reacted the same way, or has the little boy has got everyone very conscious of what his behaviour?
Have just re-read my post - I'm honestly not defending the kicking.

Oh Emma, it has obviously really upset you more than these things normally would. And maybe discussion on Mumsnet makes it worse (!) or do you still feel a bit shaky about facing the other Mums/ gran in playgroup?

Don't be embarrassed about your reaction, it is so understandable, and you are so obviously not normally a lunatic. (And you weren't this time either - you were just angry in the heat of the moment and you expressed your anger - you didn't commit a criminal offence!)