New! EU wants to forbid forward facing car seats

[MissHH]

Read more here:

kidsincars.blogspot.com/2008/06/new-european-research-children-should.html

What do you think? I can clearly understand why looking at that report.

That's awful to hear about your collegue's ds .

It's really nice to hear that you've found the threads helpful, and your ds will still have plenty of things to see out of the car window when he moves into his 'big RF seat'.

I still find it odd that some other people read the same info.as you and are more concerned that a 4 year old would have to bend their legs, than the 5 times safer aspect, but glad that keeping these threads bumped is giving parents the info. they need to make an informed choice.

Hopefully, shops, magazines and road safety officers will be giving out the correct info soon too.

When you're ready to buy, please get in touch if you need any help. It wasn't the most straightforward purchase in the world for us as our car seatbelts meant we had to have isofix in the end...but definatly worth the extra bit of effort.

Sprogger, RF children actually have MORE things to look at. You can see a lot out of the back window and still obviously see out of the side windows.My children have all preferred RF for this reason.

Seems that a lot of people who think their LO's would hate RF haven't seen the seats, to see just how high up they are. I think people wrongly think they're like Group 0 seats.

Pixie, I am in Bristol too!! And Jeremy Vine can be a little Daily Mail, but he has a lage housewifey audience and so target really... for this information that is!!

Absolutely! Was hoping that you weren't put out by the fact that I'm just a bit about him. I e-mailed too! Also did Points West, Guardian etc, (even flippin Phillip n' Fern....I've no shame ).

Pocket-pixie needs lunch...back later.

away, I don't mind!!!

Can anyone tell me if these seats can be fitted and accesed in three door cars?

If not then hundreds of thousands of people are going to need to buy new cars to use these seats. Am I the only one who is not able to just drop everything and rush out and change my three door car for a 5 goor hatch/saloon? Or should I put my two year old in a RF seat on the front passenger seat, as this is the only way I could do it, but wouldn't this be a safety issue as it would reduce access to the back of my car in the event of an RTA?

However, I do agree that we should all be more aware of the existance of RF seats and the possible implications of FF seats. I have never heard of it until I read this thread and it has made me think very seriously about the whole issue. One thing I am sure of is that this issue is not cut and dried, and that having your child strapped safely into FF seat is not tantamount to murder, as they are still a milion time safer than if they were just on a booster seatr or not strapped in at all (like children were 30 years ago)

Now, if someone could tell me how to stop my two year old from slipping her arms out of the chest/shoulder straps in her Britax First Class whilst I am driving I would be eternally grateful! (I think I'll start a new thread about this actually...)

Monkies

Yes, they can. Last weekend we had our three year old RF in a Akta Graco Duologic in a Audi A3.

on Thu 26-Jun-08 19:28:55
Tl: Belt clips - Many parents struggle with kids who in one way or another gets out of the car seat belt. A belt clip prevents the child from taking of the seat belt and it also locks the belt in the right position. And tighten the belt as hard as you can.

Like in picture nr. two here:
images.google.no/images?q=beltesamler&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:nb-NOfficial&client =firefo x-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

Don't think that link worked but MissHH's original post on this thread about the clips has working link.

I've heard of the Recaro Polaric, Fixway and Graco Duologic.....does anyone have any experience with any of these seats - good or bad? Also, are there any others that you would recommend?

My ds is 3 and a half and like alot of others I had not heard about the dangers of FF seats (or of the availability of any alternative after infancy!) He is very tall for his age and weighs 17 kilos - he is almost too big for his FF seat. I now have no idea what to do, because savety is very important for us, but I don't know if it is worth buying a new seat for 6 months (or whether he would even fit in it!) Any advice is welcome.

I mean "safety" of course...

"Can anyone tell me if these seats can be fitted and accesed in three door cars?"

"Yes, they can. Last weekend we had our three year old RF in a Akta Graco Duologic in a Audi A3."

Was there another childs car seat in the back seat as well? I have two children, DD1 is nearly 5 and in a full seat (not a booster seat) and DD2 is 2 and in a Britax First Class, we tried to get the Britax in the back seat RF when she was a newborn but couldn't actually get her into it as you just couldn't access it with the other car seat next to it on the back seat. (we had to get a "lift in and out Baby Bucket" and put her on the front seat until she was big enough to sit in the Britax 1st Class in the FF position.

It seems to me these RF seats are great and easy to install/use if you have either a huge car with back doors or only one child.

I shall invest in a belt clip to stop Houdini from freeing her arms asap, thanks!!

Monkies

That's a tricky one Butterfly and before I write anything, you have to know that I'm not an expert in this matter by any means. As he's almost too big for FF he will soon be too for a RF seat too, as you know. Maybe his size mean's that his body is almost strong enough to travel FF anyway? MrsAki/MissHH will hopefully know if this is true or not.

In the meantime, if you do want to go RF,do you have any friends with a small baby who might be interested in getting a seat in 6 months or so, and could share the cost? I know the advice say's not to use second hand but between friends who could trust each other on the seats history? Just idea's for you.

Which part of Bristol Twelvelegs? I'm Southville.

I don't think anybody is expecting anybody else to run out and buy a new car

And you are right, FF is not murder. To have your child in a FF car seat is 40-60% safer than to not use any seat at all. To have your child RF is 90-95% safer than to not use any seat at all. According to statistics.

As for what to do with a 3,5 year old, well that is a tricky one. The seat we have, the BeSafe Izi Kid, has been tested in Sweden to 25 kg, as have many other RF seats. (The Swedish T-mark.) But whether you want to invest in a new seat will have to be your call. There are so many factors to weigh in, as we have seen above. I am totally obsessed with this issue, so I am not the best person to ask for an unbias answer

sorry pixie, lost this thread and didn't answer your post.

i think there are many things that would be safer for children that are simply impractical in day to day life. there is enough pressure and guilt on parents as it is without telling people that the safety precautions they are taking aren't good enough.

i do understand it is safer but i think there has to be a point at which the parent can decide for themselves what measures to take based on their knowledge of their child and their own feelings regarding pros and cons rather than being bullied, guilted and eventually legislated into these extreme measures.

like i said, my children simply would not tolerate not being able to see us and see where they were going, on top of that both dp and i suffered extreme car sickness as kids and i'd be very concerned about them developing that too.

surely the added safety in the unlikely event of an accident is offset by the added danger of not being able to see your child to ensure they're ok? and there must be implications regarding the childs inability to communicate with the parent whilst in the car? i can barely hear dd speak when she's facing me, how would she communicate with me if she was turned around?

I think that what you are touching on PT, is more a question of attitude. If most children you knew where already RF, I think that you would view the whole issue in a different light. I am saying that because I come from a country where nearly all children are RF and I would never consider to put my child FF. Everyone view the world based on what they are used to, and new things can seem odd or even wrong.

But I don't think that this needs to be a question of legislation. If the products were readily available in the highstreet shops, and all the information was out there, then parents could indeed make up their own minds about what would suit them.

I personally have spent such a long time diving into this issue that I get a bit obsessive, but I don't think that you should see this thread as bullying. Just because other people have information that you might not want to hear, does not mean that they are trying to bully you. As you say, you make your own choices, and live your own life.

i didn't mean the posters here were bullying MrsAki, i meant the concept of the EU telling people that what they do to protect their children isn't good enough was a form of bullying (bullying on MN, that could never happen )

you may be right about the attitude thing, most people i know don't use car seats at all, or have kids on booster cushions from 1-2 years compared to them i'm fairly fanatical about car safety.

i still do feel though that the child being unable to communicate with the adult in the car, and the adult being unable to see the child are major safety issues which do to a degree offset the increased safety if RF seats in an accident.

"i still do feel though that the child being unable to communicate with the adult in the car, and the adult being unable to see the child are major safety issues which do to a degree offset the increased safety if RF seats in an accident."

Not backed up by statistics. I wonder why parents in Sweden don't feel that way?

I still think that that is depending on our attitude. I have a 16 month old and she is rear facing. I have the little mirror and can see her just fine. And she can see me. If there are more than 1 adult on the car, they can sit in the back with her and then they can really communicate as they are facing each other. This works great with sublings as well. If you have a younger one RF and an older one FF, they can interact and play really well in the car. I am not at all convinced that they can ve called major safety issues, and I don't think that they offset the safety aspect at all. But again, that is probably because most children I know are RF and they don't have any problems with it, nor do the parents.

What we see as the norm is so ingrained in us, it takes a lot to even recognise that this is what we do. I think that my opinion is obvious and right, as it is what I am used to. You do the same with your opinion. But that is what makes a great debate

siblings, not sublings. sorry!

Having had three instances where my DS has started vomiting violently in the car and threatening to choke, I would have very significant concerns about him being rear facing. It was hard enough getting him out of the rear facing seat quickly when he was a baby.

My comment about dangerous drivers earlier was meaning that IMO the focus should be on getting those idiots out of their cars and off the roads, not putting yet more onus on struggling parents. For example, massive punitive fines and six points on the licence for people spotted overtaking on bends, hills, etc.

Unsafe drivers are only an argument that supports the importancy of RF.

GM: There was only one child yes, but I am sure that we could have fitted a FF seat next to him. The DL seat we have is one of the smalest(40 cm) seats on the market.

I had to ask DH, and he is pretty sure we could fit a FF car seat at the back as well(just as i thought).

But here where I live we have many more RF seats to choose from, so it is easier to find a seat that fits in the car then it is in the UK ATM.

I hope they will take in all the Scandinavian RF seats on the rest of the European market, so that parents can find a suitable RF seat for their car if they wish.