court appearence what to expect.

[breeze]

6 months ago i bought a used car from and garage and to cut a long story short, i was ripped off and it would take about 2 thousand to put my car right, i paid 2 and a half thousand for it in the first place. I tried to get garage to sort but was fobbed off until after warranty and was then told to go away not our problem, i decided i was going to take this further and thought that mentioning court proceedings would make them do it, but no it has gone all the way and i have to go to court, all i have ever seen is court on telly then you get cross examined and ripped to pieces, i am sure its not like this, but anyone have any idea's what to expect.

I suffer panic attacks and have been tempted to drop this, but we saved ages and i am not going to give in. help

breeze
is it the small claims court you are going to? If so no need to be frightened. It will be much more informal than you think. Having said that you must prepare to some extent what you are going to say and have filed all the papers necessary to the court.

yes it is the small claims court. I have filled in all the forms and even had the aa to come out and strengthen my case, It is with the judge now awaiting for the date (prob a couple of weeks). i have always been scared of public speaking and having panic attacks doesn't help that matter.

Hi breeze, I had to give evidence in court awhile ago now on a case that involved 3 bouncers that had beat the s* out of my husband (boyfriend at the time). To be honest it wasn't a particulary pleasent experience as the accused just sat virtually laughing at me BUT I knew I was in the right, as you are, and I would have stood there all day to get the right result. These men were brutal thugs who attacked my husband with cosh's resulting in about 15 stitches which I witnessed.
When you think about how much money these crooks have swindled you out of you'll be able to do it. Keep in your mind how angry you were/are about it and it will be ,like you, a breeze. It worked for me
By the way one of was sentenced to 9 months so I was quite pleased.

some websites that give more info:

www.small-claims.co.uk/

and you prob already have this:
www.courtservice.gov.uk

sorry for no links. I'm holding the baby and have just cut my finger.

Our ex-landlord is giving us @#%$, so I'm investigating small claims court also.

good luck!

Try bachs rescue remedy for the panic attacks.

breeze, it sounds as if you have a good case, especially with the AA on your side. Good for you for going through with it, there are far too many businesses (not all garages!) out there ripping people off and getting away with it.

Lots of luck - let us know when it is and how it goes!

breeze - most small courts and tribunals are very aware that people find giving evidence stressful and will be very sensitive to that. Just talk slowly and stick to the facts. Keep notes with you and ask if you can refer to them if necessary.

Just rememeber that they have done wrong not you so imagine how nervous and frightened they will feel.

Also, a great many cases are settled out of court on the day. A lot of cases are taken to the 11th hour as a game of brinkmanship. Good luck, you'll be fine.

As a student, 20 years ago, my friends and I took our landlord to court for withholding a deposit when we left. My friends dad was going to conduct the proceedings then couldn't so I took on the role of Petrocelli (remember that TV lawyer - don't know if that is how you spell it).

Anyway, we won our case and the people in the court (except the defendants) were very nice and honesty prevailed.

Keep in your mind that you are right. They are not out to harm you, the court just wants to establish the truth. Good luck.

breeze,
sorry, I don't have any experience of court appearances, but it sounds as if you are completely in the right. I don't understand how the garage can sell you a car that is not 'fit for purpose' (the legal term I believe) and potentially get away with it!
A number of years ago I bought a car which it turned out had been involved in an accident and had the chassis welded back together - nothing was visible until the car went up on ramps to have some work done on the brakes. The AA advised me that it would fall apart in a simple shunt and CAB said that I had a good case since it had happened less than 6 months ago. So I just hounded them day and night (almost) with threats of legal action and writing to the newspaper and Watchdog etc etc. Eventually they conceded that the car was not 'fit for purpose' when it was sold and although I did not get my money back directly I did get another car of the same value.
Hope this all works out for you ... CM

Hi breeze - I had to go the small claims court to get payment from a client and it wasn't at all intimidating or like the court scenes you see on TV. We sat in a room rather than a court and there was just me, my boss, the rotten client and the judge present. The judge asked us all questions relating to the case from paperwork we had submitted - no speeches or cross-examinations etc - and ruled in our favour (hurray). Just be prepared and make sure you have submitted all the relevant documentation, as CAM says. The judge will probably be quite sympathetic anyway as he must see dozens of cases relating to dodgy car salesmen! Good luck x

thank you all for your kind words and advice, i will focus on being angry, especially as one of the 21 faults picked up was the handbrake cable was rubbing through the petrol tank, and we all know how dangerous leaking fuel tanks are.
thanks again i feel much better. the CAB said i had an excellant casen the rotten garage are trying to make out that they offered to do all the work FOC and i was totally unreasonable and demanded my money back. Liars.
I will keep you informed of progress

Breeze, I was taken to a small claims court by a nusery I was in dispute with a number of years ago. The thing to bear in mind is to know your stuff before hand. I was also a 'witness' in my friends case (we were both taken to court for not giving 3 months notice when we left - even though a social services inspection proved that they were understaffed, among other things). Anyway, in my friends case we were in a small room (similar to an office), in mine we were actually in what appeared to be a court room. Both 'hearings' were quite informal, but you may find the arrangement a bit intimidating if you're not expecting it.
Top tips are:-

1. leave plenty of time to get there - you don't want to rush in late
2. Take copies of all your documentation, and all the other parties - so you can refer to them if necessary. The judge will have read them but won't be as familiar as you are.
3. Take a pen and some paper - the other side will be able to speak about the case & you will need to make a note about any points youwant to argue against.
4. BE POLITE - nobody likes interruptions - even if the other side is telling real porkies - note it down and refute it when you are asked to speak.
5. Get as much info as possible about your case on the net. It may be too late now, but can you price similar cars at other garages, or did the AA give you an idea of the cars worth. All documents you are going to need to refer to have to be filed at court, so presumably to AA report has gone also.
6. Don't worry to much. If all else fails and you lose you will be no worse off than you are at the moment. Take no notice of any personal comments passed by the other party - you shouldn't care what that load of cowboys think anyway. I suspect I felt pretty much as you did when we had our court case (possibly worse as it involved our kids) but I felt it was a matter of principle that I contested the case. Interestingly enough - not many people thought we would win, apparently failure to follow social services guidelines is not implicit in the contract between parents and nurseries (hey - were only talking about kids here anyway!) whereas the 3 months notice was. As it happens, we did win, but I think that was largely to the vast amount of preparation we put in, and the fact that the other side were very cocky - though they couldn't lose. Anyway, sorry for the long post. Hope you find some of it useful at least and, once again, try not to stress too much about it, it really isn't that bad.

Go for it breeze.

I had a nasty experience with a local garage a few years ago. I had a banged up old Fiesta and driving into town one cold day in Jan it ground to a halt. The AA came out and towed me to a local franchised garage. The AA man went in, explained the prob to the garage (I had 2yo DD with me) and when he came out told me they had said about 40-50 quid and I could pick it up at 5pm.

I aited all day for a call and none came so I rang them. They told me it needed a new gearbox which would cost 400-500 quid. At that point I burst out laughing cos the car wasn't worth that and we were that weekend planning to go and order a brand new Golf for delivery in the March! I aaranged for someone to tow the car to a friend of my brother's and he did the repair. He said they had only had the wheel off - there were no fingermarks to evidence they had been near the gearbox.

I was so angry, I wrote to Trading Standards and cc'd the AA. Trading Standards were brilliant and called into the garage to ask about it. Apparently the garage remembered my car but were a bit fuzzy on the details of what they had said to me.

The TS man said he had no doubt that what I said was true but because I had no written quote, they couldn't prosecute. I just hope they sent in one of their tester cars like you see on TV and the garage eventually got banged to rights.

Go for it. Get even

Beleive it or not a lot of judges or sympathetic when they feel someone has been ripped off by a company. We all know how a lot (not saying all) of car places have a tendency of concealing things so they can make money. Especially if there is no warranty. I wouldnt worry. If you feel you have been ripped off then explain why and I'm sure the judge will see it too. They hate companies trying to make money and get rich off of peoples trust. Good luck

good luck Breeze, I have been to court on a couple of occasions, once representing the company I worked for & once for my fault (prefer not to go into details .......... !!); lots of excellent advice here, I would reiterate the point about being ultra polite and also, although it sounds corny, dress smartly, it can only help - I know this sounds really snobby but after sitting in the waiting area with a load of dossers it could only do me good to go in wearing a smart suit & looking confident & being polite.

I've also spent a night in a police cell - but that's another story!

still more excellant advice comming in, i will have to learn to control my temper, because the garage have already lied on their paperwork they filed, the said the offered to do the work foc but i said no, luckily i kept copies of letter (sent recorded) asking for work to be complete foc, which i didn't get a reply, so hopefully the judge will see that and think..., i will try and restrain myself from launching myself over the desk and lumping them one, he guy is question is a real smug git too.

Ok Breeze, listen up, as the garage did not offer in writing to do the work FOC then how can they prove they made this offer? They can't. As you wrote asking them to do it FOC then obviously you were willing to accept it if they had offered! Therefore, as you have now been forced to take them to court, obviously they did not offer because you would have been willing their offer. Say this in court to expose their lie. In any case, if you have been sold a faulty car you are entitled to have your money back, you do not have to accept work being done even if FOC. (personally if I was ripped off in this way I would not even consider having the work done by them as I would not be able to trust them).

sorry for typo, meant you would have been "willing TO ACCEPT their offer". Also, do not wait for the judge to "notice this" point it out when it is your turn to speak.

Breeze it does sound like you have a very good case. When I was 17 someone drove into me (ie my parent's car) who wasn't insured so we ended up in a county court. It was a lot emptier than anything you see on TV and the majistrate/judge was quite reassuring. In fact I think yours should be even more low key because we did have a barrister and things. I think being calm, organised and especially focussing your anger is the key.

I'm a bit worried about them claiming to have offered to do the work FOC, actually - they can easily produce a letter in court, supposedly written at the time of the dispute, offering to do it, and say they sent it to breeze, can't they? Difficult to prove that they didn't, they can just say they didn't send it recorded (really smart of you to have sent yours that way, breeze!). Mind you unless they made a note of yours they may not hit on an appropriate date?

Keep your cool, breeze, as others have said! The judge (?) will probably be well used to cowboy garages - may even have come across this one before - and, as somebody else said, the garage may be trying to call your bluff and will cave in at the 11th hour.

God I sympathise about wanting to leap over the desk and thump the guy, we spent months inching towards an industrial tribunal when my DH was wrongly sacked, we had a lovely CAB guy helping us and as the date got nearer, and I got madder about the lies they were telling, he started threatening not to let me come to the tribunal in case I did just that! Two smug gits in our case - one of them currently a self-publicising Premiership Chairman (although he has been quiet the last few weeks) but they settled at the last minute - hope yours will too!

Don't want to be picky Janh but the garage would have had to put their documents into the court a couple of weeks before the trial date in order to rely on them in court. Coming up with a letter on the day would look very dodgy and in theory would not be acceptable as evidence. However, it seems that Breeze would have accepted their offer had it been made so would not be taking them to court.
Let's have a mock-up of the trial to put Breeze at her ease, who wants to be judge?

Oh good, thanks, CAM, I wasn't sure about that, breeze said they have lied in their paperwork, claiming to have offered to do it, I don't know how these things work so I thought maybe they could suddenly produce one (if they haven't already faked one in their paperwork???) like in Perry Mason! (You can tell I never have been to this kind of hearing!)

A quick runthrough would be good, have we got any lawyers on mumsnet?

the garage had 28 days to fill in his defence, he did so on about the 26th day, and the court had an 8 day backlog, i had hoped that he hadn't filled his in, but he did. I did have to laugh when the AA bloke came and said, its actully a very nice car in good condition, except for the engine and gearbox!!!.
Thank you for all your kind words of advice, you do not know how much you have helped me, and if i do not win the case (but a am being optomistic i will), i can always take my dh suggestion and drive it through the show room window. (the sad thing is if i did i would have to book thrown at me)