Had a HUGE row with my mother - advice needed HELP

[Girly]

I really am angry, my mother came round yesterday as she usually does everyday, or near enough. Her first words were 'look at the mess, lets tidy up' Never mind that we had been having a great time playing picnics with barbie and general mucking about, as you do. My dd is 3 and ds is 8 months, Anyway My M has always been a very controlling sort of person and often takes it upon herself to tell me what to do and how to do it, ie she decided that i had to go to weight watchers with her, because i am too fat.

She always contradicts me in front of my dd and the rest of my large family, ignore my wishes totalliy with regards to the children, does the exact opposite of what i ask, ie i am trying to get dd off the dummy ,we have managed to get it to at bedtime only, dd knows that if she asks Grandma for a dummy she will oblige, so the other day i said no to a dummy and yes Grandma said 'ignore mummy she's just grumpy' and gave her a dummy which i took away, all hell broke lose as you can imagine, She smacks my dd evn though i have asked her not to, this list is endless and this goes on everyday, she moans if she can't get through because i'm engaged etc etc.

The point is yesterday she did it again, contracdicted me in front of dd in MY OWN HOUSE yet again and when i asked her not to she said that i was an unfit mother and that she would take my kids away and call social services because i was incapable of caring for my children because i have band PND which of course I am making up as no one in HER family has mental problems.... I endede up throwing her out of my house and now they keep ringing me and i don't know what to do i am so angry and upset... I need some objective advice pleadse.

Girly

If that had been me I would have done more than throw her out.

My MIL has tried, so far unsucessfully, to interfere at times in DW and mines methods of childcare so I do know what it is like but we took the route of just ignoring her.

She is your daughter and as such unless asked your mother should keep out of it.

Have tried thr ignoring route and for the past 3 years have manged quite well to do so, this was after the last bust up in which she called me pathetic, because my dd who was 6 weeks old then had bad colic and would not stop crying, just writing this down is making me see just what i have grown to accept, and it really is pathetic, i should stand up to her, but then she uses the emotional balckmail route and sya s that i am ungrateful, blah bloody blah, sigh....

Girly I would have been furious too. Your own mother talking about calling social services is outrageous! And she sounds horribly unsympathetic about your pnd. Smacking when you have specifically requested that she doesn't is also awful behaviour on her part. I really don't know what to advise you to do though, although I agree that her behaviour is extremely unreasonable.

Could you write her a letter to tell her how you feel? That way you would be getting it all down on paper calmly and without confrontation. You don't have to be rude about her in the letter, you could just tell her what behaviour upsets you, how it makes you feel and what you would like to see change. Could you enclose a leaflet about pnd which explains that it doesn't necessarily run in families, what it is and how it is treated? I'm not surprised you're upset, I would be sad and angry too.

Oh, Girly, I'm so sorry about your monster ? I mean mother! She does sound VERY difficult. It also strikes me you have a very close relationship with her ? perhaps a bit too close. If I saw my mother every day, much as I love her, I think we'd both need carting off to the funny farm. Does your mum have much else going on in her life? Do you think she may be trying to live her life a bit vicariously through her children?
I think you need a bit of space between you for a while, after which, when you've calmed down perhaps you could contact her and tell her calmly how undermined you feel when she contradicts you in front of your children, and how hurtful and insensitive it was for her to comment on your weight. (I think we all feel a bit dumpy at this time of year ? partly winter, partly post-christmas. My dh called me 'portly' the other day, which made me feel like a middle-aged man!)
How supportive are the rest of your family? Do you have a sister you could have a bit of a rant to? Or who might even be able to take your mother to one side and point out how difficult she's making things for you?
Even when things have calmed down, as I'm sure they will eventually, I'd seriously try to cut back on the amount of time you spend with your mother in future ? it does sound a bit as though too much familiarity is breeding something rather unpleasant.

The thing to remember Girly, is that you are in the right and now have the moral high ground. How DARE she threaten you with social services! How DARE she hit your children when you have specifically told her not to! She is seriously out of line. Remember also, you have the upper hand here - you have the grandchildren and can make sure she never sees them again. Not that you should do that, but she needs to understand that you control her access to them and she had better toe the line or she will miss out, not you. I think now is the time to tackle this as you are so angry you don't care what she thinks. Be as angry as you like. You have a right to be furious. She needs to be seriously put in her place. I would suggest something as stark as: 'If you ever speak to me like that again, particularly in front of the children, I will make sure you don't see them, ever. In future, you will respect my wishes regarding smacking, contradicting me in front of the children and dummies, or I won't let you visit.' She can rant all she likes, but you have the upper hand, so use it! Don't let her morally blackmail you. Would you do this to your grown-up daughters? Would you expect them to be grateful to you for the rest of their lives however you treated them? Probably not, I suspect.

You are so right aloha, i do not think i have ever felt this angry with anyone in my entire life and quite frankly just the thought of speaking to her at the moment makes my blood boil.

I have tried the softly softly approach but shje is a biot to thick skinned for that, her dh (my stepfather) in the past has said that i should take it for the peace and to remember that she is my mother and that she loves me ,but does that give her the right to dictate to me for the rest of my life and that i should take it so as not to risk hurting HER feelings for the sake of the family NO NO NO. My stepfather is a lovely man, has the patience of a saint and knows exactly what she is like and yet still makes excused for her, even though he know she is in the wrong.
Yes Rosie T she is a monster sometimes and yes Sh i did feel like doing more than throwing her out.

Girly, what a dreadful situation. My mother lives 200 miles away so I don't see her often enough as far as I am concerned, but I know that if I saw her every day she would drive me potty.
I definitely think you should avoid confronting her at the moment - you're too angry and things might be said which cause an even bigger rift - but on the other hand, don't leave it too long because the bad feelings will fester and get worse.
I agree that writing things down is a good idea - that has certainly helped me in the past when my brain is just whizzing and I know that I couldn't have a discussion with someone without either exploding or bursting into tears. Use Mumsnet if it helps - there's certainly plenty of sympathy here.
I don't really have any advice about how to improve the situation in future - other than suggesting that she comes round less often? - because you have to decide how much you want her involved in your lives, but whatever happens I hope it goes well.
Best wishes .... CM

I agree it will be hard to change her - she'll need a big incentive and the thought of not seeing her grandchildren could be just that! Some things I could turn a blind eye to, but contradicting me in from of the children, smacking them and threatening to take them away from me (in front of them!!!!) is too much for anyone to just accept. If you can't face talking to her, I think you should write to her in very frank tones, saying what she said was unforgiveable (which I suspect even she knows right now). You are very angry. You think that the way she behaves is making you reluctantly reconsider whether she should be allowed to see the girls at all as her behaviour is damaging their sense of security/behaviour/respect for their mother/whatever, and that you will only allow her to do so if she agrees to respect you as their mother, which means X, Y and Z in terms of behaviour. You need to be very direct and extremely serious. She won't like it, but that's not the issue here, is it? She may constantly have to bite her tongue when she's with you but that's what normal, civilised people do all the time anyway. Things might be strained for a while afterwards, but I sense that up until now she's been happy while you've been miserable. Time to even things up a bit, I think!

Thanks for the adicve so far girls, its very reasuring for me to read all this as you have all in one way or another echoed my feelings on this and its nice to have some validation instead iof crisitism.

Sobernow, i think you are in saying that she feels jealous, I have been over recent weesk tyring to put saome distance between us and maybe she knows this and its making her more determined to undermine me. She is trying to make up for her bad treatment of me as a child by spoiling her grandchildren. She was quite agressive towards me when i was young, if i defied her she would hit, kick throw things at me until i apologised and i am determiced not to do this to my kids, she was never there for me when i was small, we never had a stable home to come back to, i would not invite friends round for tea etc, |My Nan always picked us up from school. So i have done the opposite, i have given up work to care for my children, which she thinks is wrong, she told me the other day that she was giving up her part time work and i was to go back to work and she would have my children! Not a chance! i could go on forever but somehow i think you have all got the point.

Aloha, your right too, it will be hard to change her, but i think for my own sake as well as thechildren she needs to learn a valuable lesson in mothering!

Girly she sounds awful. You acted very calmly in my opinion. This is not your fault. She is your mother, and if anything, it should be her that makes allowances and changes her behaviour to make you happy, not the other way around. Would you expect your girls to tiptoe around you to keep the peace in the future? I was so afraid that my mother would turn into the grandmother from hell that you describe as our relationship was strained before. Fortunately the opposite seems to have happened and our relationship is v. good. She did threaten to tell social service to take my dd away the other day, but she was only joking because she wanted to keep my dd all for herself
The big change on our relationship came when I realised (during my pregnancy) that it was not my job to keep her happy, and that I had to be a bit selfish. Trying to be a wonderful daughter wasn't making her love me any more, After a couple of months of only communicating in monosylabillicle phone calls she suddenly came round, and started being lovely. Sooner or later she will have to start treating you with the respect that you deserve as an adult and a mother.
I think writing to her would be the better option. If you have a huge face to face confrontration it could easily turn nasty. She will also be more likely to try to blame your "irrational" behaviour on the PND and refuse to believe that she is in the wrong at all. Good luck. It is very hard, but just think whether you would accept this behaviour from your friends. If not, you definately don't have to accept it from the one person who should be doing the utmost to support you.

Go Girly! A New Year chance to change your life. Hooray!

Your mother clearly has some real "issues" around motherhood/family relationships in general, and my guess is that she's not going to change overnight ? if at all, sadly. But what you may be able to change is the way you deal with the situation and how you let it affect you. Remember, your children are YOUR children ? and you raise them in the way you think best. No one else should think they can tell you how to do it better ? and it certainly doesn't look as though your mother's track record is anything to emulate.
I had pnd ? it's nothing to be ashamed of ? but what you need now most of all is support. If your own mother can't give you that, it may be best to avoid her, otherwise you might just get into a destructive spiral. What help are you getting with your pnd? Can your GP organise some counselling? Sometimes talking to someone totally objective, unjudgemental and unconnected with the situation can be really helpful.

Hi Girly
Really sorry this is happening at the moment.
I wanted to write because your mum sounds incredibly similar to mine. I also had PND after my ds was born - and actually after 6 months decided to go for some counselling, which I still go to. This was the turning point for me.

I don't want to make too many assumptions or jump to conclusions just because our mothers sound similar - but have you ever wondered if you got PND BECAUSE of your mother and the negative associations with motherhood you gained from her - this was certainly part of my problem. It sounds to me like your mother needs to learn to look after her child(ren) - ie YOU, and let you get on with looking after yours.

After 2+ years of counselling, my life has turned around, and because of shifts in my perspective on life, the relationship with my mum is slowly but surely improving and ever changing. It took me a long time to realise that her unhappiness and anger/resentment etc was not my fault. I would really really recommend talking about it with someone.

But in the meantime, I would just keep your distance and give yourself time to settle down after this most recent fight - the most important thing is that you focus on looking after yourself first, your children second and your mum much later down the list!!!!

I'm not surprised you threw her out to be honest! I have been so lucky with both my mother and MIL, something I think I've only realised since reading tales of woe here.

I agree that you need some space from her. Tell her this and say you will be happy to see her again when she can be civil and is prepared to accept your patenting style and respect your wishes re smacking/dummies etc. Having written that, I'm not sure I could say those things to anyone let alone my mother but I am a complete wimp!

Have you ever told her how you feel about your childhood?

I'm sorry I can't offer any real advice but I'm sending you lots of hugs instead. PND isn't your fault and your mother's behaviour can only be making it worse.

Girly:

I am so sorry for you - I don't think anyone has the power to make us as upset as our mothers do - or, at least, mine does!

I give you credit for making her leave - I think that took a lot of strength and guts, and you did the right thing.

As far as your mother claiming no "mental illness" in her family, she may need to take a long look in the mirror. Depression manifests itself in many different ways - and she does not sound like a stable, happy person to me!

I would write more, but must work, so will try to later. But you've gotten good advice here, and don't second guess yourself! Trust your instincts; it sounds to me as though they are right on target. Good luck!

Girly, I thought I would add some sympathy and support. I agree with whoever said that you may be too close with your mother. I feel this myself at times, although we live about 30 miles from each other, we phone very often, I am an only child and am very close with my Mum, something that I do treasure, however find myself today feeling very similar to yourself.

I could not believe when I read your post it sounds like the last few days I have spent at my parents' house. My Mum however is the one with depression and I do try and make allowances. I have listened to her moaning and complaining about everyone who is 'out to get her' over the last few days and then cannot believe the way she has treated me.

I have been there since Tuesday (just come back today) and we started off by watching a video of DS1 when he was a baby/toddler and I commented about myself being "at my worst" size/figure wise at one point in the video, to which my Mum turned round and told me that I was fatter now than I was then (I am a 14 now and was a bursting 16 on the video). She commented about everything I put in my mouth over the holiday, asking how many biscuits I had, when I replied, exactly the same about as you (she had been stuffing them in her mouth good style) she started saying "oh, are you counting the number of biscuits everyone is having now" to which I said "not really but obviously you are to have mentioned it". Anyway this went on and on, little jibes here and there about my weight, comments about the jeans I was wearing that they would be "worn out before I fitted into them properly again". I am still b/feeding my 7 month old and now feel that I am ready to tackle my weight, I have been attending aerobics classes since he was 7 weeks old, but this seems to account for nothing.

Anyway the final straw came as we were preparing to leave this morning, I felt she was pushing me out the house, and possibly feeing jealous that I was going to visit my bestfriend on the way home. She made a remark that I had been "having a nice time to myself leisurely getting ready", implying that I had left her with the kids, when this was not the case I spent 5 mins drying my hair (if I had not done this this would have been a problem also as you cannot in her opinion go out on a cold day with wet hair) and the rest of the time packing and folding the travel cot etc. She had been asking me on the phone previously about a jumper that I had and where I got it, I was wearing this jumper this morning and asked her before I was leaving if this was the jumper she was talking about to which she replied "yes but it used to be bigger on you". That was it I started, "the jumper is a 12/14 how on earth was it any bigger on my than it is now" (used to wear it in my bursting size 16 days as it is baggy) then said words along the lines of "this is great, not only have you examined and critisized everything I have put in my mouth over the past few days, told me that I have been bursting out my jeans and I have got a big fat bum but now my jumper used to be bigger" to which she said "I did not say you had a big fat bum" which was true she did not but she didn't need to, she felt it necessary to comment on everything else, including when I mentioned that my stomach way still quite baggy from DS2 (9lb 1/2oz I think anybody's stomach would be baggy) she said "I think it's all filling up with fat now". Anyway she was all ready to come down the car with my Dad, myself and the kids and all she did was hug the kids, and said a curt goodbye to me, when I asked if she was coming down to the car she said "I don't think so in case I say something else that's wrong". I can remember her saying since I was about 12 comments about my weight etc, and really I think she has alot to answer for any weight/food issues I have.

Sorry for butting in on your thread Girly, it's just it all seems so silly when I read it back but I am at present in tears and shaking when I think about it all, and I can't believe she thinks it is OK to treat me like this and no doubt it will be me who ends up having to say that I am too sensitive and apologise. My mum BTW has put on some weight herself since I last saw her and has aged over the last few years but I would never dream of mentioning it to her, and I accept her excuses that she needs to eat more chocolate etc because she is getting old.

She has also smacked DS1 on occasion even although I have asked her to leave that to me (I do use smacking as a form of discipline but try to limit the situations it is used in and feel that is for myself and DH to do). She has also spent the last few days saying how great DS2 is compared to DS1, and it seems everything DS2 does is so much better than DS1, to which I will agree that DS2 is an easier baby and probably an easier personality but the comparing of them was beginning to grate.

Anyway I think that is it all out, I didn't want to burden my friend with all this as she is just home from the hospital after having her second baby, and I feel a bit better now, sorry again Girly for gate crashing but I feel very much for you in your situation.

Oh demented, sorry to hear this. I do think mothers can be the worst sometimes when it comes to weight and looks can't they? I don't know why some of them (mine included at times) think they can say whatever they like about your appearance and somehow it's not supposed to count as hurtful because it's coming from your mother!

Mine used to be capable of stunningly tactless weight related remarks too but I know that sometimes it was partly that I took it the wrong way - i.e if she said "have you lost weight?" I heard "You need to, lard arse, look at the state of you." Not that I'm saying this is the case with you, that you're taking things the wrong way, not at all, I'm just sympathising really as I think I know the feeling a bit. FWIW I think it's very impressive that you're a 14 so soon after giving birth. And most of the women I know who have weight and food issues consider that a lot of the blame lies with their mother.

I don't know if this would work for you but I stopped discussing my weight with any of my family a long time ago and so they know damn well not to comment thank you very much. (I'm a 14/16 btw, so lardy but not obese) I don't join in with my sisters "ooh I must lose some weight, I've put on 1/2 a pound" conversations (they are both a size 10) and don't ever ask for weight or looks related opinions any more. It seems to have worked as none of them would dream of commenting these days since they know I don't want to hear it. I suppose I know that if I commented on my own weight they would all see it as the go ahead to join in/suggest a weight watchers group/recommend a diet etc. I don't blame you for feeling angry and upset, I would be too.

Don't worry Demented I know EXACTLY how you feel, its infuriating isn't it? They know all the right buttons to push and when you have the cheek to answer back you are put into the bad daughter box and made to feel a pariah. I have never been ableto do the right thing as far as she is concerned, my brother on the other hand only has to say jump and she says how high, my brother knows this and uses it to his advantage, his midemeanors are met with 'oh boys will be boys' Not that i hold this against him, we get on well despite her.

We can be bad daughters together! I fell better already!

My spelling is really bad, its cause i'm so bloody mad!

Tha advice I've read over this very long discussion is perfect, and I really hope that you(Girly) find it nice to hear we're all behind you. I also hope and I suspect it has has made you feel better getting it all off your chest(Girly and Demented)
Let all hope girls that we never become like our mothers at least like their bad bits anyway!! Or more importantly like our mother-in-laws!!!

The weight thing is horrible, isn't it? For years, the first thing my mother would say to me on the phone was "how is your weight, dear?" in a very sympathetic tone. Used to drive me crazy! (I actually just got off the phone with her, and she did ask how weight watchers was going - I bristled at first, but then let it go!)

I am sorry for both of you. Ranting on here certainly helps, doesn't it?!?

One word of caution with the letter writing thing - writing a letter is cathartic, but don't send it! A letter written in anger or hurt always causes more damage. If you feel that you MUST send a letter, write it, leave it a week, read it again, and then take out all the acidic parts, as I guarantee that there will be some comments that you know are not good to send!

I really sypmathise with the situations here, as I have never had a mother/daughter relationship with my mum. She is not as bad as yours, but I do know someone whose mother is exactly like that. She is critical to her daughter, and it really got this girl down. She sent two letters, which her mother took great offence at, and which led to very rude telephone calls where the girl could not get a word in edgeways. It has reached a point where she has not seen her mother for over a year. Sad in one way, but necessary for her.

Girly,

I must say that I agree with everything everyone has said but two things in particular. 1. Percy has recommended counselling. I too am "too" close to my mother and I too had PND. Unlike you my mother was never as dramatically awful as yours but nevertheless I let her undermine me on loads of issues. Counselling was fantastic. Not only did it help sort out my PND (caused for an absolute multitude of reasons - but major one was living up to my expectations of my mother's expectations of me being a mother (hope that was clear), but it also empowered me to sort out my relationship with my mother. The first thing I concluded was that I was unlikely to be able to change my mother's behaviour without changing mine. Second conclusion was that if I did anything dramatic then she would accuse me of being weird and in a funny way she would win again. Gradually I drew myself away from her. Instead of simply announcing I didn't want to have anything to do with her I started making excuses as to why we couldn't meet (talk on the phone). This is hard work when you only live 6 miles away! At first this was awful. I kept thinking she would shout at me and tell me to stop "playing games" and to "get a grip" etc etc. The excuses gradually moved from the more extreme visiting yet another friend to sorry Mum but I've got things planned I'll try to see you later. Whole weeks would pass and whereas I used to see/talk to her everyday (often more than once) I managed to start building a life that not only did not include her at the same level but was also good. After a few months I felt strong enough to let her slowly back in. I was able to set ground rules such as "I don't want you feeding my dd loads of sweets". The standard response came back "But I'm a Grandma - its my right", to which I would respond "This is not a discussion". The important thing here is how I felt, she still argues admitedly but I now feel in control and I feel completely content with how I am raising my child. The counselling really helped me achieve this and I can't recommend it enough.

2nd point is to agree with Chinchilla. I did write things down and it does help but on reflection I'm very glad I didn't send it because I'm sure she would have found a way to use it against me and would have shown it to many others within the family.

I must say though I never had as many problems as you appear to have with your mother and my mum and I now get on very well (with only occassional arguments that I now know how to handle) Good luck and remember you are the best mum your child could have and in your child's eyes no one will ever replace you.

Haven't read all of the replies, but I sympathise. I have a very similar relationship with my mother, and often find myself making myself miserable to save her feelings.

In some ways she's great, but in other ways I find her impossible, and then I feel guilty for those feelings because she has done a lot for me. But everything I do is always wrong, she's never said "well done" or "you're doing well" or anything like that. She just always finds ways of making me feel I;m not good enough. It's always my fault.

I went the letter route with my Mum. It was very difficult. I find it very hard revealing my feelings and emotions to people. But we were arguing every time the subject came up, and she was refusing to listen to my point of view. I felt it was important for my own peace of mind to explain the reasons behind it all, rather than just forget it and pretend it never happened, as I was very hurt about the whole thing. I poured my heart out in this letter. Explaining how much she meant to me, how sorry I was that it had become such a big row, and explained my reasoning etc. As I said it was really difficult and took an awful lot for someone as guarded as me to do that, and she must have known that. And she ignored it. Never even mentioned it. I know she read it because I found it a few days later, just sat on the side in the kitchen like it meant nothing. It hurt like hell, and has destroyed an awful lot of the trust I had in her. I will certainly never lay myself on the line and confide in her like that again. Just thought I would warn you.