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Original poster

How altruistic are you?

52 replies

OrmIrian · 29/04/2008 14:48

I?m not referring to how much you give to charity or give of your time to charities/school/church etc. I mean in your behaviour towards others. If, for example, you were contemplating having an affair with an attached man (or woman), what would stop you, assuming anything would of course. A sense of morality, altruism towards the innocent party (ie the other partner and DCs), or simply a fear of the consequences? Would you have to build yourself a justifying argument; he's not happy with his wife, it's his job to care about her not mine etc. Do we fool ourselves when we think we act or hold back from acting in consideration of others?

OP posts:
Swedes · 29/04/2008 16:44

There is such a thing as constructive dismissal within a marriage where the party who finally jumps has been horribly neglected and rejected for a long time. It's far too simplistic to say he left her for another woman therefore he is bad. Things are not always as they seem.

WigWamBam · 29/04/2008 16:47

I wouldn't even start to contemplate an affair but I don't think it's for any of the reasons you list. I love and respect my dh so much that I don't want or need anyone else. I also love and respect my daughter enough to not want to tear her world apart through my own behaviour.

Not wanting to do it because of guilt or hurting someone else suggests that there is something wrong with the marriage - the implication is that the person wants to have an affair, but fears doing so. That doesn't apply in my case.

I don't think that quite comes under the banner of altruism; staying faithful isn't something I do for someone else's benefit, it's something I simply want to do because I am happy with my family and my relationship the way it is.

Original poster
OrmIrian · 29/04/2008 16:50

But what if you weren't married though. Would your concern extend to the partner of your lover?

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clam · 29/04/2008 16:51

But think of how some people were vilified for judging Karen Matthews for having 7 children by 5 different fathers. Once upon a time that would have been cause for shame. Now, we're accused of being judgemental if we comment on it, as all lifestyles are supposed to be valid. So, what brakes are there to stop us behaving in ways which, once upon a time, would have been considered immoral?

Original poster
OrmIrian · 29/04/2008 16:54

I agree that sexual morality isn't judged as harshly. But we are more likely to judge about aboput driving a 4x4, or owning a second home for example.

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clam · 29/04/2008 16:59

So, it's OK for us to judge the middle-classes (particuarly if they're Daily Mail readers!) for driving 4x4s etc...

wannaBe · 29/04/2008 17:00

so our judgemental boundaries have switched from moral ones to materialistic ones?

It's no longer considered acceptable to judge someone who has 7 children by 5 different men, but we can judge someone who drives a 4x4, or who feeds their children unethical food (nestle)?

Original poster
OrmIrian · 29/04/2008 17:01

Don't know whether its OK or not.

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DaDaDa · 29/04/2008 17:03

I didn't learn a lot at college, but I did learn about John Stuart Mill and 'self/other regarding actions' which I broadly agree with. People's individual freedoms and 'rights' can only work as part of society if they don't actively harm others.

Monogamy/sexual morality is outside of that but it affected how I think about it. So many people to hurt by acting selfishly.

Same reasons why I wouldn't play music aloud on public transport or cringe if I'm with a noisy group of people.

WigWamBam · 29/04/2008 17:06

My philosophy is "harm none".

That would be enough to stop me from having an affair with a married man, even if I were single.

I still don't think it's altruism though, just part of being a decent person.

stillstanding · 29/04/2008 17:07

Am confused by the references to Karen Matthews. She was vilified for it so there surely is still a stigma attached to having 7 children by 5 different fathers. I think most people (whether they admit it or not) are a little at that ...

I think that most of the societal norms that have changed have done so in good ways - ie there is less tolerance of racism, sexism, homophobia.

expatinscotland · 29/04/2008 17:07

respect for myself would stop me now.

i think i deserve someone better than someone willing to do that to their family, no matter how bad their marriage is.

and if that someone weren't around, then even my own company and my friends are better than going for that.

people are selfish by nature, but mature adults usually try to exercise a measure of self-control.

Nagapie · 29/04/2008 17:15

I don't think the word 'altruism' should be included in this discussion at all. Surely the whole thing about it is that altruism is instinctual and by even acknowledging its exitence it no longer altruistic?? I do hope this makes some sense...

I hope that I can go through my life treating people the way I would like others to treat me - at the risk of sounding like a bible basher - it is the core of my Christian belief...

Original poster
OrmIrian · 29/04/2008 17:21

No. I think it is relevant to this discussion. Do you by nature avoid hurting others, or go out of your way to help people because you are altruistic. Or is there some other reason that you have for acting in certain ways - moral, emotional, cultural, fear of consequences.

I didn't mean this to be all about sex. It was just an example.

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JodieG1 · 29/04/2008 17:25

So many people always say they wouldn't, where are the many that do? Statistically speaking is it 70% of people that have affairs? Something along those lines so most people do and would.

Nagapie · 29/04/2008 17:33

But what is the definition of being unfaithful? That is a moral quagmire it itself....

nooka · 29/04/2008 17:49

I have found that in general being nice to other people has a fairly powerful kick back effect. Either it's simply that you feel good in youself, or it's the return benefits (even the simple smile and get a smile in return). However what you are talking about is slightly different. Is it altruistic not to choose to hurt someone else? Or is it just crummy to do so? I think there is a difference. However I suspect that if you are attracted to someone and then think, "I mustn't because it would hurt another party" then maybe you wouldn't have anyway. I think a lot of attractions are passing ones.

I think that the major problem with having an affair is that it stops you being true to yourself. It sets up situations where you have to lie, both to others, and perhaps more importantly to yourself. When dh had his affair he managed to persuade himself that I wouldn't really be that upset - we were just friends , and when I was upset that he was behaving so oddly he thought I was being unpleasant, which justified his behaviour. I suspect that he knew perfectly well all along he was behaving incredibly badly, but it distorts your sense of reality. Of course it can also be fun, but there is always a crash after the ride.

My db has also had an affair, this time more in the constructive dismissal sense that Swedes refers to. I can understand why he did it, but it would have been so much better all aound if he had split with his partner (maybe there might even have been some hope for renewal of their relationship) rather than hanging in there whilst the relationship got worse and worse and taking solace with someone else (who he didn't tell the truth to either). There is now so much deciet, distust and anger and it has hit the whole family.

moyasmum · 29/04/2008 20:10

Sorry saying "very" earlier on, sounded very flip,I dont mean that, really.
I guess, i am aware when i can do something helpful and it just makes sense to do it. If you are not very invested in people on a personal level ,maybe its the next level of involvement?

fuzzywuzzy · 29/04/2008 20:18

I wouldnt contemplate having an affair for lots of reasons, the main one being that I dont play second fiddle to anyone!!!!

On the other hand I really do try and treat people the way I want to be treated, given recent events in my life, I have really come to appreciate the random acts of kindness of complete strangers....

NotABanana · 29/04/2008 20:20

I'm not sure being altruistic involved not having an afair with a married man.

What I was going to answer with seems superflous.

Original poster
OrmIrian · 30/04/2008 07:37

No. I'm not sure that was a good example notabanana. It's just a subject that seems of interest on MN. However I think that not doing something that you otherwise would like to do because it will cause pain to another is altruistic.

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Original poster
OrmIrian · 30/04/2008 07:43

Perhaps if you think of a scale from 1 to 10, with pure altruism being 10 and somewhat more grubby reasons (ie not wanting to be found out) being a 1, where would you place yourself. I have had to realise recently that I'm nearer a 4 than a 10 . Which shocked me a little as I tend to think that I care about others - I do good things sometimes and refrain from doing bad things mostly, but my reasons are more complex and less admirable than I once thought. I was brought up with a very strict moral code - church-going Tory voting household where affairs were never referred to and divorce was a dirty word. Real life, being very different of course, has worn away my absolutes.

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Alambil · 30/04/2008 09:35

If my best friend wasn't married, he'd be more than a "friend".. the fact that he's married (happily) with 2 gorgeous kids stops me even thinking about stepping over any lines...

Is that altruistic or is that just wishful thinking or hyper-imagination on my part?

I'm single, lonely etc - he's not single and happy as well as a lovely person etc... I don't think that's altruism but rather "if only" for me etc.

Alambil · 30/04/2008 09:40

I'll tell you what is fun to do - and possibly altruistic (not sure) is when at a toll booth or some such, pay for the car behind too then drive through sloowwlly so you can see the confusion ensure.... gives many laughs to car infront!

Alambil · 30/04/2008 09:41

ensure??! I meant begin... idiot me used wrong word!