FAITH SCHOOLS! If you don't agree with them, step this way, my dears.

[onebatmother]

What can be done?

It seems to me that many of us don't agree with them, and some of us (not I) are quite knowledgeable about the ins and outs.

Could we not start a movement?

It's all so wrong, really, isn't it?

Here, here onebat.

Its quite distasteful really, when you come down to it - the government takes money from religious groups to enable them to brainwash the next generation instead of finding the money a fairer and more equal way.

yes, about one third of the schools in the country are faith schools.
there would be no need to buy them, the government could pay rent.
although, historically, the buildings and land for the CofE schools came from - where? tithes. so they belong to the people anyway.

We might have to do it gradually, but it's still worth doing. They only have to be bought once and then we'd own what we're currently paying for anyway.

We could get some of the money back by not giving churches tax breaks. Does anyone know how much that amounts to?

enough for what?
the thing is, in some areas most/all schools are faith schools. they are not evenly distributed.

They don't belong to the people if the people gave their money to the Church voluntarily - guess it would be v hard to determine that!
Also depends if Govt & Churches would accept the rent scenario

I think if you are going to do this, you have to abolish all religious education at schools, like the French. Non-faith schools are still tacitly religious, if not denominational. They have a 'daily act of worship' for example.

also, there could be a compulsory purchase scheme. the churches could be offered the alternative to fund a school without state support, of course, if they wanted to do so. or the parents could buy out and run it independently.

also, there could be a compulsory purchase scheme. the churches could be offered the alternative to fund a school without state support, of course, if they wanted to do so. or the parents could buy out and run it independently.

Cloudhopper that would be my plan. Religion would go back into the home and church where it belongs.

True Harpsi - they could have a big map with pins in at parliament and re-distribute but it would be a big job!
I wonder if there are more cases of religious families not finding a school with their faith or non religious families being forced into a faith school?

well, tithes certainly weren't voluntary, they were taxes and there were legal penalties for non payment.
also, you could go to hell for not paying them apparently.
the church also did not pay taxes, so they were effectively subsidised for many centuries.

But GRS - that would not be fair on the parents that do want religion to be a big part of their child's education - and there are obviously a lot of those.
I don't think the answer is to remove the option completely - it should be to give more choice and try and match the number of faith/non faith schools to the population.
Maybe compulsory purchase where there are only faith school options or the majority - to level it out a bit?

Harpsi if you look closely the church got a lot of its money by very dubious means: Crusades, slave trade etc should they be paid back at all?

The word has changed in meaning though in recent years. I know Christians who say they 'tithe' and it is nothing to do with the law.
Prior to this I guess it was a different form of council tax as the Church provided many local services?

yes, that's true Jackstini, tithes are no longer legal taxes but the church received them for many many centuries, tax free, and built up enormous wealth and assets - including the schools we are talking about here.
the populace also paid a form of "council tax" for local services - whatever they were. churches did provide some charitable support to the destitute but not the kind of services I think would be equivalent to the council tax today.
I am wildly generalising and making statements cutting across centuries
if you want to get a sense of the size of tithes received, then go and visit a tithe barn, cathedrals in themselves

Jackstini, your last idea isn't a bad one anyway in the meantime. If we also removed religion completely from the state one.

As for parents that do want religion to be a big part of their child's education. I still don't see why that needs to be in school and not church/home. After all when we say we don't want religion education most of the faithful say "but there's hardly any in faith schools anyway - just the odd mention of it"

A visit to the vatican puts it in perspective. You are basically blinded by the gold on display.

They should buy and run their own schools/academies and leave us tax payers out of it, surely?

I don't think they want sermons at school, I just think it is including things throughout the day like saying Grace before meals, the joy of lots of Children singing hymns together, praying for any poorly classmates/teachers etc.
If religion was totally banned, these things that are so natural in some families would be missed.

Microwave - but that only covers the Catholics - what about the rest!
Anyway off to bed so shall follow up thread tomorrow - night all.

To make it clear, I do want all faith schools to go. My point is that I am mystified as to why we need them - most faith schools are C of E.

Grace before meals - can one meal a day during term time not be shared with people of other beliefs? I have no problem with the school pausing before meals and thanking the farmer, the factory worker and the dinner ladies for the meal. Singing hymns - I'm a bit sceptical about the joy of hymns - but as far as I am aware, my local church has both sunday school and youth groups after school where I expect they sing hymns. I think most churches with an active youth membership do this kind of thing? Children are also at home for a good proportion of the day and I assume bible reading, saying of prayers and singing are a standard part of the Christian day at home.

I do think Religious Studies has a place at school. It would be difficult to teach English, History and Geography without religion being on the curriculum somewhere, but I think it needs to be taught as "this is what some people believe". "This is what we believe" should stay at home or in a place of worship.

It's about evangelism, MP - reaching those children whose families do not tell them about the Christian faith.

...and reaching unchurched adults as part of the wider school community.

That can't be true of the church schools where they restrict access to church goers?

Church goers don't really 'need' to go to church schools, imo.

scienceteacher, why should the state fund evangelism?