FAITH SCHOOLS! If you don't agree with them, step this way, my dears.

[onebatmother]

What can be done?

It seems to me that many of us don't agree with them, and some of us (not I) are quite knowledgeable about the ins and outs.

Could we not start a movement?

It's all so wrong, really, isn't it?

well he said we had to ask the arch bishop of cantebury! anyway we were only engaged for six weeks and my dh was living in france and was returning the next day so we had to organise a wedding in four days, so we didn't bother, but we had a registry and then a blessing in the church, which is exactly the same as a wedding except the vicar says you HAve taken this woman to be your wife, instead of DO YOU .... you have the hymns, readings, blessing of rings, etc and you can walk down the aisle with your dh at the beginning cos you are already married. it was brill.

QuintessentialShadows

Children do not choose their faith though do they?

Oh. You weren't joking?

(that was to cosima)

my children (at a faith school) have of course not chosen their religion. But I think we have given them an introduction to something, and later on if they choose, they can opt out - when they are adults and able to make the choice.

Greyriverside, just saw your post now. Of course I would not want to inflict my faith on a child of parents who take offence by Religion. It is counterproductive. As I said in my previous post, there is good reason why the Faith schools should fill up with children active in the Parish first.

But, equally: Children of parents of NO faith do equally not choose their lack of faith. It is their parents, once they are in a Faith school that decides that their children are not allowed to take part. What does this tell us?
Whether religious or not, you bring up your children in your own belief, be it ateist, christian, muslim, wickan or agnostic. Why have a go at Christian parents for doing the same?

Religious parents arrange the baptism for their offspring. Later on when the child/teenager is older, they go through extensive lessons where they are encouraged to visit other Churches, other Beliefs, where they are encouraged to go within themselves and make a choice. Many opt out. That is the point, to learn to think for yourself and stand by your convictions or lack thereof.

Faith is pretty much part of education in a Faith school, but it does not come instead of the Curriculum. Why should Religious parents not have this option of a good value based education for their Children, that fit in with their own values and ethics just because some parents do not want to send their children to such a school?

If they believe so strongly about it, why ruin it for others, why not actually try make a change with a state school?

Surely the answer is to build more good state schools?

Or is it just the standard "Bloody hell I cant stomach that you have a religion, cos I dont?"

OK - on the hypothetical tax/funding issues;
Say a Church contributes to it's local school &/or owns the building/land. The school is not fully state funded.
Shouldn't the children of the parents that support that Church get some priority? In a way they are paying more towards it...?
fwiw I still think there should be more secular schools, but many schools have been there for a long time, and the split of faith/non probably was reflective of the population 50-100 years ago

Blimey, 400+ posts!!!

Good thread, batty dear.

Look, you pro-church-school lot, all we (or most of us) are asking is that if your church chooses to select by religion then your church pays to run the school. That seems entirely fair to me.

If your religion can't afford to pay to run the school then your religion should waive the right to dictate entry conditions.

QuintessentialShadows, you miss my point. under the current system parents whose kids have to go to a faith school because there is no choice do NOT get a say in the religion taught them

That's what I meant by inflicting it on them. I felt sure that you too would disapprove of those circumstances no matter how wonderful you believe your particular religion is.

And yes we should build more state schools. Enough for every child who wants one and use the money currently going to fund faith ones.

Because if no schools are faith schools that does NOT deprive religious families since you have church and home to read the bible to them.

I went to a C of E secondary school. About 40% of the children were Jewish, Muslim, Catholic or Hindu. About 50% only saw the inside of a church at weddings and funerals.

There parents actively chose to send them there.

Their

Greyriverside, I actually think we share the same opinion in some roundabout way, you dont want nonreligious kids in Faith schools, and neither do I.

I like to have a Faith school alternative (where I am now there isnt. My son has his first day in a state school in a country with no Faith schools tomorrow), but equally I understand that there should be a non-faith alternative.

Which is why I say that the answer would be to build more state schools, not to abolish the Faith schools.

Sorry to return to the point, but I don't think any government/council/education authority is going to build more schools than are needed just so that parents have a choice. I can't see how this would work in practice.

No, there shouldn't be 'non-faith alternatives' - there should just be no faith based schools (unless private). Much simpler and fairer to all tax payers.

Also, the problem with christian parents who want their child to go to a christian state school is that they are not just deciding that their own child should be taught from a christian perspective, but that my child should be taught from a christian perspective too.

I have no problem with christian parents teaching their children their beliefs. I do not see why this cannot be done at home and at Sunday school. I can just about understand why Muslims might want a muslim school because of praying to mecca, and why catholics might want first communion to be part of school life. I don't agree with religious schools, but I can see that for some people they have a practical value. When it comes to the C of E, I have no idea why people need faith schools.

also, much fairer to children who might not want to be indoctrinated in one religion but deserve to be given the alternatives from an objective perspective an allowed to make a free choice without being told what to think, or told what is the truth.

Amen harpsy

bless you my child
peace be with you

oh. Oh! You only want to abolish SOME Faith schools? Not all?

Piuh. What a relief. My sons Catholic school would be safe. And the Islamic school up the hill.

Novice - it is as fair on the tax payers who contribute to religious schools and don't agree with them, as it is on the Churches/churchgoers who contribute towards Faith schools that still (rightly imo) accept some children with no faith/different faith.
If you stop the Church contributions and the Government had to buy all the school buildings/land owned by the Church - where would the money come from? Your taxes would go up - that's where!

I'd be happy to pay higher taxes for a non-discriminatory system.

Jackstini, it is tiny amount which comes from the churches. absolutely tiny - a maximum of 10% of the capital costs (repairs and so on).
compared to the real costs of running a school - the staff salaries for example, and the costs of materials, the heating and lighting etcetc, it is an absolute miniscule drop in the ocean.

Fair enough OBM - but would everyone?
Harpsi - I know the ongoing contributions are small - but what about the buildings and land?
I'll be honest, I have no idea how many faith schools there are in the UK but I am not sure the Govt could just afford to buy them all...?

Just googled it - it's about 7000...
That's a fair bit of property

To clarify that is England only.
And there are 18,000 non faith apparantly - surely this should be enough?