How do ordinary people afford ...

[EbenyZebraScrooge]

good quality furniture, original artwork, water softener systems, anything expensive?

This is not to criticise anybody, rich or poor, spendthrift or frugal.

DH & I are, I think, relatively very financially comfortable. No debts, own house outright, savings...But we see shops full of stuff that is more than we think we can afford -- more than we can justify spending. We will have to save up for a few years to buy some of the things we want (like good quality solid wood furniture).

Most of our current furniture was inherited/gifts, actually. Are there a lot of very wealthy people out there? Do people buy these big things mostly on installment or credit cards? I just can't imagine how most furniture shops/art galleries/whatever stay in business!

told you I was tired.. 23 weeks pg and not sleeping well.

Winnie1 - I wholeheartedly agree - I knew that comment would be interpreted that way but I didn't mean those that work hard have pots of cash therefore those that don't have pots of cash are lazy gits!

If you read other posts from me on other threads you'd know my view on this - for example, I mentioned on another thread that I thought women who spent all their day looking after kids and working in factories, telesales, supermarkets in the evening work just as hard, if not harder, than those who go out to work and have children cared for by nursery/childminder and of course they are usually on lower income.

And look at some of the shockingly paid professions like nursing.....noone could say they don't work hard!!

Anyway, just wanted to clarify my meaning there!

I'm a spoiled brat moneywise and am only just getting to grips with spending less now that dh has shown me the error of my ways. still wonder how anyone affords new clothes much (but glad that they do since i can buy them 2nd hand ) but finally learned not to judge others - i know two people who had large houses when quite young and i felt - in both cases they'd lost parents as children. ok the parents were comfortable enough to have life insurance but i'd rather have the parents and no money.

It's a question of priorities/life choices isn't it?

Most families with young children with the items you mention probably also have mortgages which you don't have, so they are quite possibly less well off than you are, and just have a different outlook on money, the future and risk.

I think art galleries and expensive furniture shops are largely frequented by the over 50s or those with inherited cash.

I think the phenomenon of living in debt is not a new one at all in Britain. If you talk to very old people, they reminisce about how the high street had six or seven pawn shops which always did a roaring trade, and most people simply did not earn enough to cover their outgoings. In the "never had it so good" sixties, a large percentage of the population finally earned enough money to have some left over to save or spend, but with the "normalisation" of low wages compared to living costs (particularly the house price boom) the credit card has merely replaced the pawn shop in many peoples' lives.

My post wasn't directed at anyone specifically. Just wanted to point out an interpretation of what was being said.

DelGirlsRingAreYouListening, please don't bow out because you think you may have offended someone. One of the great things about mn is the wide range of opinions. Mn has actually changed my mind about deep seated beliefs on more than one occassion

FWIW, I found this thread fascinating because in my personal life and in my professional life I am very aware that many people use credit to simply live (I'm not talking about holidays, expensive furniture, the latest gadgets but paying the council tax, utilities etc) and I think this relates to the fact that the cost of living is so expensive that wages aren't enough. House prices are a classic example. I don't actually think it is always about life choices/priorities, sometimes it is about the essentials

Credit is very easy to get. We do live in a society where debt is 'normal'. We do live in a society where many (the majority?) expect to have everything today. My Nans advice was always 'never a borrower or a lender be' and I think she had a point. And despite the number of people who aren't in debt posting here, many people in real life are. I am interested in Caligulights insight regarding pawn brokers as I'd never thought about that. But I do get the sense that debt was less socially acceptable in the past.

I don't think it helps to be judgemental but I do think it is sad that people feel so much pressure to 'conform'. Maybe that is changing slowly, there has certainly been an increase in charity shops on the high street. Or is that chicken an degg syndrom? However, did hear last week that the UK has the most amount of credit in the world and I think that is staggering and I wondr if it can be sustained.

Agree with much of what you've said on here winnie. Aren't credit cards very rare/unusual in France?

Psst, what deep-seated beliefs have been changed? . Don't answer that but I'm always intrigued when people say that. Might start a thread...

More charity shops are more a reflection of how much retail rental prices have gone up, to be honest. As far as I understand it, charity shops get their premises rent free whereas other smaller businesses struggle to survive.

Winnie - at the risk of sounding pathetic, I'm always concerned if I may offend and always end up worrying about it, a sensitive soul am I. My post was only really about me personally honestly and how I feel about debt. I'm not criticizing (sp)anyone else for being in debt. What I said about my friend, I said because I worry for her and feel sad that she feels the need to buy 20 pairs of shoes each month to make herself feel better when she knows she can't really afford it and this is no exaggeration. I'm well aware things happen in life that are unavoidable like relationships breakups, redundancy, illness etc which can throw people into debt and i'm not saying I will never be in that position. When I said I had 2/3 jobs to stop me from going into debt other than my mortgage, I was at the time, living in a studio flat, my 1st owned place, when the interest rates went up to 16%. This is just a ramble now but like I said before, it's my way of dealing with it and everyone is different, with different needs and desires for things. I went without many many things for a long time in order to keep my head above water as collectively I wasn't earning a huge amount at the time.
However, all that said, my situation has changed a little since DH died obviously but I know full well, even if we had never met, i'd still be ok as I always try to be careful. The only thing that peeves me sometimes, is when people get jealous of things I may have now. Obviously I wouldn't choose to be in the situation I am now and sometimes people forget that. I also choose to still go without rather than borrow whereas other people may choose to go out everynight and buy loads of stuff. That's it really. Each to his own.

you certainly haven't offended me DG, blimey no! X

Georgina: Charity shops that I've worked with have always paid the going rate in rent for their shops - they don't get any favours.

awww thanks spacey. take no notice, had a really exhausting week one way and another with one anniversary after the next, not sleeping and feeling a bit weepy and very hormonal (apparently normal for a woman in my condition you know} . How are you doing, are you ok?

Just incase Merlin happens to read this, twas a lovely afternoon and your little boy is a charmer . He also managed to clear my ears and I can now hear better than ever! lol x

Hmm morningpaper... maybe it's just peculiar to Monmouth then? I certainly remember being told that the council there at the time gave charity shops the places rent free... of course that could just be misinformation. Sorry

Apologies. Have done some research - apparently it used to be the situation that many charities paid a mere peppercorn rent so that premises were kept occupied. This is no longer the case. Source here in particular respect of Oxfam shops.

Incidentally though, they still appear to get tax breaks on the rent...

Gosh reading this has made me feel like a right poor relation! I have always wondered how "ordinary" people can afford to spend £150,000 minimum on a family home in the town where I live. Let alone furnish the damn thing.

I know being a SAHM some would say I have brought the situation of low income about but DH tries his best. And tbh we manage thanks to deals in shops, the local outlet shopping centre and so on. I couldn't take out credit from a shop as I would constantly worry about it! I probably sound really pathetic but hunting out bargains has become really satisfying for me and if I am perfectly honest it always has been, even when I worked! DH just looks at me funny when I go on about how much I saved.

Original artwork, I don't know anyone who bothers so I wonder what that makes me, my friends and family. Like you EZS we save up for certain things like decent furniture but at the moment our suite is 2nd hand, no point buying new with dst toddlers running around. Heck we even go on holiday thanks to Ryanair and Ibis!

Hmmm, I suppose I can be filed under the cheap and cheerful section then.

I think it definately depends on what you budget for. We can be as broke as you like and always find money for cigarettes (insert rolleyes smiley here), I have friends who can't have any money but for them buying DVDs regularly is essential. Maybe for some people v.expensive furniture is an essential and so they just build it into their budget. Does that make sense?

I do think some people go into awful debt though, but its SO easy to do. I recently realised that my credit card had been increased by another £500 that I never asked for!

Me and DH both work fulltime and that considered I think we have pretty low incomes. I try very hard to live within our means but I want nice things too sometimes. I do like to shop so I have to control that (but I do most of it in cheapie shops). I am always saving up for something, but sometimes I just feel like I have to go into debt. Christmas is not a cheap time of year for instance, but I like to spend. I feel like I work all year round so I can buy nice things. I know thats not a healthy attitude but its how I feel.

I hope nobody got too upset...
I actually think that most people who are relatively "well-off" have worked hard for most of it, and shouldn't be ashamed (but then, I would say that, wouldn't it?). I just sometimes wonder how far away how we live is from how other people live.
My parents owned fine furniture & original art when I was growing up, but I think they were usually mortaged to the hilt for it.

Have to say that sometimes some of the posts on here make me laugh, like if someone is saying they are struggling a bit and won't be able to Florida this year and they will have to make do with 2 weeks in spain or whatever. Not pickiung out anyone in particular just trying to say that sometimes some people just haven't got a clue how little others have to manage on.

Still don;t think that came across right, but ikwim.

Most people I know who are 'relatively well off' have parents who worked hard for it.

Have to say i do take exception a bit too the 'ordinary' bit.

So if you have money that makes you what then ????

we sell our bodies on street corners and sell our teeth and kidneys on ebay

LOL Fio, might be trying that soon actually

good idea that. sell off a leg or arm as well and you could claim all sorts of incapacity benefits too (wink)

ROFL wheresmypressies.........no offence meant to anyone of course.