What is the UK really like now?? Good or bad

[momofha]

Morning all,

We relocated to Switzerland a year and a half ago from Guildford Surrey. Unfortunately we did not do much in the way of homework regarding the schooling situation as it was a quick snap decision to move. Since we have 3 children private schooling would be outragously expensive. We only have one at school going age at the moment and we have put him in the local French school. He has been there 6 months now and we are starting to get rather nervous. I just feel that perhaps he will never reach his full potential as, even though he may pick up the language, it is not his mother tongue and he needs to study in it! That amongst other reasons. i.e being treated differently as he is a foreigner etc, is making us thing that coming back to the UK is the best option.

My husbands old company has offered him his job back with a nice increase and they will pay relocation costs so it is rather attractive.

Only thing is when I speak to all the English expats I know here they say they wouldnt come back if you paid them! Stating that the UK is now full of yobs, hodlums, teenage alcoholics and pregnant at young age. Undisiplined children with poor education in schools offered. Unsafe crime riden. Expensive and on the decline with bad weather and no outdoors life.

We lived in Guildford before and I never found that there! Ok there was a rather rough estate to the north of the area but it hardly affected us. We are planning on probably moving to Marlow, Bucks this time.

Please give me your HONEST opinions on the state of the nation now as we urgently need to make this decision. What do you think?

(Hope I did not offend anyone with anything I said in this post, not intentional.)

Well I don't think it's really changed that much in a year and a half

momofha, we were also expats in Switzerland , returned to UK almost 3 years ago with schooling being a major issue, rootlessness and costs. Agree with your view that it isn't as bad as painted, in the Home Counties and outside the major cities at least . Many British expats have only really experienced city life , by the nature of their careers. Also it is naive to think CH, despite its attractive lifestyle, is immune form such problems , they do a good marketing job !

since teh marxist takeover last august things have got alot better re. hoodies etc. there are gangs of police who round them up and take them to re-education camps in the outer hebrides. on the down side if you quibble over your council tax you tend to 'disapear'. good luck with your decision!

Perhaps not, but did I miss something whilst in the UK that was there and I never saw it?? Or are they just bitter expats trying to find a reason not to return?

Marlow is great, fab schools, nice area. I live about 30 mins form there, it is a great place to live and I would be mor ethan happy to bring my kids up there

Lizs, I would be interested in your take on this. How long where you in CH and was it French or German part?

I agree abour most expats only experiencing city life as alot of them are from London.

OK, sorry . Well I think it depends on what you're looking for. I live in a big city and it has good points and bad points, like anywhere. It's probably not as clean as Switzerland, and there is a yobbish/city-centre-on-a-Friday-night element, but it's also friendly, some of the schools are great (some not so great), and I certainly wouldn't say it's 'crime-ridden' (and this is Glasgow we're talking about) - I never feel threatened and you always know the areas to avoid.

'No outdoors life' again depends on what you want. We have probably about the wettest, greyest weather in the UK and we get out plenty. Rainsuits and wellies. I can't believe Switzerland has just the greatest climate either does it, with all those Alps?

Message withdrawn

Go over and have a good look at Marlow, get a feel for the place, the schools.

momofha, I'm in German CH now.

We recently did a lot of soul searching on this topic, as due to dh's job we have to leave () A bit complicated, but were supposed to go to Milan for a couple of years (where dh new job was) but I didn't want to stay so long, so plan was to then go to UK, somewhere in SE, near London/Kent.

I had the same reservations you've outlined, but then as others have said, I doubt it's changed for you in 1.5 years! We've been gone 8 and it'll be at least another 2 before we return (if indeed we do, as Milan is now off).

Anyway, as part of the move, we looked into the schooling a great deal. I was initially happy with ds1's school, but now am extremely unhappy about it. We looked into IS, something till now I'd actively shunned, and when we move ( now to Germany) our ds1 & 2 will go to IS. The difference in systems is very shocking. Dunno how old your dc's are?

These are a few notes about our recent experience. My snap answer for you in your situation is - if you love CH and can't imagine ever leaving, then stay. But if you're not madly in ove with the palce, if a big part of you is tempted to take the offer, I would go for it. I also have horrors of UK form reading MN; but remember, a lot of comments on here are obv. neg, as people use it to let off steam. But UK s still a great place to live, and there is a lot to be said for being in your home country. Being a foreigner, no matter how much you love the country, how well you speak the language etc, being a foreigner is tough, and unless you're thoroughly happy to stay in CH, and see your future here, I'd ignore the expat scaremongering and take the offer from dh's work.

I think ernest is right - lots of expat scaremongering.

Also depends if you read the Daily Mail, in which case I wouldn't bother coming back!

Sounds like you'll be moving to part of the country that is sufficiently genteel and wealthy, and that your income will be such that you will live somewhere nice with good schools.

And I would be very, very surprised that things have changed so much in 18 months!

Wow Ernest thanks so much for your post. It is true, there is alot of scaremongering amongst the expats here which normally lasts until it is there turn to return to the UK and then they change there tunes totally.

My DS is 4 and a half, with a 2 and half year old brother who will need to enter the same system that I have my reservations about so, yes, I have concerns for the childrens future education.

After all, I have heard that the UK is in the top 5 for the best education in the world. Need to go and google that stat to see what it said.......

def not top 5 in world, ha ha ha, but the difference between swiss(german) system & uk system VAST
if ds is only 4.5, how come he's in school or have I misunderstood? Here, mine didn't start till 7, so moving to UK system would've meant having missed 3 years school ! so from that pov, the sooner you made the move the better probably.

I'll see if I can find the links I was looking at, but ch was far higher than UK. I don't know how different it is in your Kanton. here it's very very slow and thorough start. Half way through the 1st class, and ds2 is still just learning numbers to 10 and the alphabet. As far as I can tell, they pretty much only do German and maths. And a bit of music. no art, science, history, geography etc etc. very slow and thorough, so mental arithmatic is excellent! But I think the more varied curriculum of IS or UK systems would suit many kids, and certainly mine better.

End results in CH are a lot higher, but afaik, general concensus is it's great if your kids are very bright and motivated, but if they're more middling, or not in the top x% not so good.

can't find the link I looked at, this is a bit messy, but has couple of bar charts comparing several countries and has England and Switzerland on it. It's aimed at US system (is critisism of it) but gives an idea here

I am in the French part and they start at 4. Between 4 and 6 years old it is playtime basically with a bit of maths and alphabet and then at 7 they start serous school. I found a link ranking the top 15. CH was 11 and UK was 13. Oh how we strive to get a good education for our children..........

Here is the link. I am off to Norway!! news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2149799.stm#table

Ok I just saw that table was from 2002. Think I need to find a more recent one but all I have found is a article that says the UK did not submit there results in time.

that link is discussing quality of living rather than education though?

The 2007 report here shows Zurich at number 1, Geneva at number 2 and London (for example) at number 39! Education-wise though, the bbc web site has http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7126388.stm this .

But ultimately thses don't really matter.

If you prefer to be 'home' it doesn't matter if the area you live in is considered 2nd best in the world, if you're not happy, if you don't feel your future is there, no league table would really sway you. You don't need a report to tell you the quality of living is better . And it doesn't matter that Switzerland ranks higher than UK education-wise. Because similarly, 5 or 10 points on an international leaguae table isn't going to be what you'll base your decision on. Sure you want to make the right/best decision for your family. But a much bigger ifactor is where you're all happy.

If you're already feeling uneasy or unconvinced that your long term future lies there, and if you have an all expenses paid ticket back to UK, I really wouldn't base it on these league tables. Were you happy in UK? Do you miss it? Do you see yourself in CH long term or not? Are you happier in CH? Could you get a similar lifestyle in UK? These are what's important? And while the CH system gets higher overall results,like I said, it's not necessarily better. In many ways it is (for my boys at least the later start was brilliant) but there's also a lot to be said for the variety in the Uk curriculum, which I wish my boys did have but don't.

sorry disappeared off to work , something I could n't do as a trailing spouse ! We were in German CH for 4 years, ds was 3 and dd was born there. ds went to an International school and would never have hacked it in local system tbh. For the cost of one at IS we funded 2 at private school over here , although fees are going up all the time now with age and inflation. Standards at IS were variable tbh and less achievement orientated than here , not necessarily a good thing. I'm hearing that the IS's there are now overwhelmed and struggling to cope. We came back just as dd was due to start Reception but made the decsion almost a year beforehand, then things gardually fell into place.

Also you go where the work is, to get longer term security . Ultimately it was our choice to return but the way things have changed over there since I don't think dh regrets the move careerwise. He's recently transferred from London to a more local position and we are gaining nearer the same work/life balance timewise as we had over there.

Marlow is pretty well to do and cosy tbh , I don't think the scare tactics you are being fed really apply and it ahs a state grammar school system. Sounds like people are trying to justify their own situations rather than offer constructive advice. hth

Thank you to everyone who shared experience as well as advice. We still have not reached a decision. Ho-hum........ Whenever we think we have we the next day we change or minds again!!