Firemen's strike - what do you think?

[SofiaAmes]

So what does everyone think about the firemen striking? Do they deserve a 40% payrise? Should they be allowed to strike?
I'm fed up with the media spin and would love to know what real people think.

GillW, I accept your point. It did just sounds a little like sour grapes for a moment there though.

Personally I wish I'd trained to be a plumber or something.

Come on, this government has no qualms about funding a bloody war with Iraq but it squirms about a relatively paltry pay rise for the firefighters. 'Oh dear, the rest of the public sector might want decent pay rises!' 'Yes, and........?'

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!

Hear Hear Tinker

And if the government breaks the firefighters resistance, then all the other public sector workers will be discouraged from fighting crap wage packages.

Most fireman have the flexibility to have a second job and during night shifts, firemen do not work continuosly, but can sleep unless called out. There is also the point that fire service jobs are very oversubscribed, and that compared to nurses, teachers etc they are actually on quite a good wage. So no, they don't deserve a rise.

BUT

Compare their wages to those of say, tube drivers, who get 30k + for pushing a button and going round a track and they are being paid terribly. Or compare them to the majority of people in my office, (city) who earn ridiculous amounts even though all we do is play at our computers every day.

I don't think they should be allowed to strike, but given the atrocious way the govt and empoyers have behaved over this I don't see what other option they have.

Another point, did anybody see on breakfast news this am that just as they came out of the Russell hotel and were being interviewed there was a fire alarm and 4 tenders turned up v. quickly. Am I being too cynical to suggest that this may have been staged?

I thought "don't be greedy!" until I went into town and saw the firemen there with their petition and publicity material. They had a poster with pictures illustrating what they did with the caption "Would you do all this for £6 per hour?" Given that I saw jobs in McDs advertised at £4.50 or so, I thought maybe they had a point.

Very very difficult with all the implications on other public sector jobs though.

My gran died of smoke inhalation after a house fire, a young fireman crawled up the stairs and brought her out of the house, because of him she didn't have a mark on her. Personally i think they deserve a pay rise, but i think they may be aiming a bit high with 40%.
The fireman got a bravery award for what he did and rightly so, but bravery awards won't feed their families!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pamina, i'm don't know the answer to that, but i can find out. Certainly, the rate of tax is much less, so a similar gross pay would result in a much higher take home pay in the usa. And the cost of living is much less, even in nyc.
I think the fact that so many people apply to be firemen is no reason to pay them poorly. That argument has been used to excuse paying women, children, foreigner poorly for far too long.

Heard an astounding argument on the Moral Maze last week to the effect that those workers in morally satisfying jobs (teaching, nursing, fire-fighters etc) should be happy to receive lower wages than average because of the high level of job satisfaction!!! I was absolutely astounded.

PS Do think that there are others who should be reviewed before teachers (at least in Scotland) as McCrone has meant huge increases in salary where many are now earning significantly more than University academics, have shorter hours, better holidays and much less stress

Totally agree with SofiaAmes - firemen are fit as xxxx and consequently deserve massive pay rise. I mean, look at the tube drivers - £30K and when did you ever see one you fancied? It just doesn't make sense.

That is just an absolutely bizarre argument. Sounds like a Chris Morrisism

I didn't mean your agument willow2...i meant the Moral Maze one...your argument makes UTTER sense. In fact I will stop as I go past my fire station on the way home tonight and tell all those firemen that they should use this as their main tact for pay increase! hmmmmm

Maybe nurses should hitch their uniforms up a bit higher, and they can get a pay rise too?

Don't they save lives daily too?

Lil, firemen's uniforms are hardly revealing, but somehow you just know they have great bodies under them. I'm afraid i can't say the same about the nurses i've encountered.... and bus drivers...ugh.

I'll second what you say Batters. Forty percent does sound a lot, but it is only to drag their wages up to what I consider to be a reasonable level .

yes, yes...we are being awful...it's plainly reverse sexism

Everytime I think of the firemen now - my thoughts turn to the tv ad where the woman gets her toe stuck in the tap on purpose...

anyway...i agree in that they deserve a payrise, they are well worth it. Just not too certain that it should be the 40%. The Government are doing themselves no favours and joe public will remember this, next national polling day!

I prefer policemen anyway - they are much sexier and there are more cute looking ones!!!
Mine is anyway...lol!

Yes, I think firemen (and women, of course) deserve a pay rise. No, I don't think they deserve 40%.
Just a couple of points I've thought of. Firstly, I don't see how, £21,000 equates to £6per hour. It just doesn't add up unless absolutely everything including tax, NIC, pension, union subscriptions etc is taken off beforehand. However it's worked out, it's still much much more, and quite rightly so, than the gross pay of £4.50 for McDonalds.
Secondly, while I think that fireman do a great job they do have it 'easy' compared to many workers. They can sleep during their nightshifts, watch telly, workout in the gym (hence the hunky bodies) and their shifts are such that many of them are able to have second jobs. Also, while their jobs can undoubtedly be very dangerous, firemen are highly trained and well equipped and their chances of being killed while at work are considerably lower than many other groups, including construction workers and farmers.
Finally, I think the goverment deserve all they get wrt public sector workers and others demanding big pay rises. What do they expect when the MPs and the MSPs in Scotland (another group of workers who,like firemen need no qualifications) voted themselves inflation busting pay rises.

Just a thought - but how much do cleaners get on average? £6 or £7 an hour is the going rate round here. IMO they're worth every penny - but it kind of puts the firemen's pay into perspective.

Gillymac - They were discussing this on the radio when I was driving home today - and it turns out that the £6 figure per hour being quoted is takehome (i.e. after everything has been taken out) on the starting salary. Pre-tax etc, and with a bit more experience (i.e. the ones they're claiming the 30k for) it's more like £12 an hour!

you would have to pay me a lot more than £12 per hour to do a job where losing my life was a possibility!

how on earth can anyone say £12 per hour is a reasonable amount to pay someone to go into a burning building to save your ds/dd, dh, mother, father etc etc?

we pay our cleaner £8 per hour - which is the going rate where we live.

well done firefighters - it's high time the issue of public sector pay was forced on to the public agenda.

scummy - will see you at the barricades!

Haven't had time to read everyone else's comments but I'll be at the barricades too bk - they deserve the rise.

Personally I also feel desparately sorry for the poor squaddies who are having to cover while the firefighters are on strike. Not only are they risking their lives with poor equipment and training but they are doing it, in many cases in the break between one tour of duty and (probably) being sent off to the Gulf, for a take-home pay of considerably less than your average fireman, or even bossykate's cleaner. Also they can't strike even if they wanted to.